USN Torps in WW2

[Zero Niner]

I know they had the Mk 14 steamer, and the Mk 18 electric.
I was just wondering whether the US had other types of torpedoes beyond these basic "point, launch, and hope that the calculations are correct", like what the Germans have - acoustic torpedos and such.

[Boris]

Theres another thread on this here somewhere. I'm not expert yet... but theres a homing torpedo called a "cutie"

[Torplexed]

The Mark 27 'Cutie' was a rather buggy torpedo in the beginning and probably suffered from a rushed development. Derived from the aircraft dropped 'Fido' homing torpedo, the Cutie was 19" in diameter, and had a 10 knot speed. Rather than be pushed out by air like all other torpedoes, Cutie "swam out" under its own power. With a maximum depth for arming set at 80 feet, submarines fired it underneath attacking escorts (from 100 feet or more down) and it sought out the propeller noise and ran into it. A weak spot on any vessel, it worked well enough to save several submarines. Of the 106 launched, the Mk 27 achieved a 31% hit rate sinking 24 ships and damaging an additional 9.

Another minus was the name. Sounds like a Disney character.

[Subnuts]

Originally Posted by Torplexed

Of the 106 launched, the Mk 27 achieved a 31% hit rate sinking 24 ships and damaging an additional 9.

Which is still a hell of a lot better than what the Germans achieved with their own acoustic torpedoes. Then again, the Japanese never managed to develop countermeasures against it before the end of the war. I'm not sure if they even knew it existed.

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by Subnuts

Which is still a hell of a lot better than what the Germans achieved with their own acoustic torpedoes. Then again, the Japanese never managed to develop countermeasures against it before the end of the war. I'm not sure if they even knew it existed.

The poor Japanese. By the time they finally started building proper radar-equpped escorts in numbers they were being sunk from the air by carriers as well as from below the sea. Better yet, the Japanese never got to read our mail the way Bletchley Park would eventually read Donitz's.

[Donner]

An excellent book on this particular subject is Hellions of the Deep: The Development of American Torpedoes in World War II by Robert Gannon (ISBN: 027101508X). Highly recommended for anyone interested in US torpedoes.

I think it's out of print but you can easily find a copy on abebooks.com or a similar used book website.

[JSF]

This is what I like most about this forum.....this thread is dead-on-ballz accurate.....Occasionally though another Gato vs VII diatribe rears it's ugly head where someone is pontificating on how the VII is better than the Gato and so on and so forth.....

One doesn't have to look very hard to find a group discussion which actually contains relevant and interesting information.......You guys are GOOD!

[bookworm_020]

Here is a couple of links,

This one talks about the use of torpedos in real life

http://www.geocities.com/thomasdclayjr/Torpedoes.html

This one list all types developed, used or experemental

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTUS_WWII.htm

The reason why with give such great infomation is that we all love the game, the history and the enjoyment of passing it along to all who want it.

We do make mistakes, but the others will set us back on the straight and narrow.

[flintlock]

Originally Posted by Subnuts

better than what the Germans achieved with their own acoustic torpedoes.

I'm curious, and perhaps someone else can answer this, are there any hard figures of how many escorts and merchants were sunk by German T4/T5s? Granted, many were thwarted by allied countermeasures, but you read about German acoustic torpedos scoring hits right until the end of the war.

[Subnuts]

Originally Posted by flintlock

I'm curious, and perhaps someone else can answer this, are there any hard figures of how many escorts and merchants were sunk by German T4/T5s? Granted, many were thwarted by allied countermeasures, but you read about German acoustic torpedos scoring hits right until the end of the war.

Well, the Wikipedia article on the T4 doesn't give a hits vs. sinkings ratio, but the article on the T5 says that 640 were fired, sinking 45 ships. Doesn't say how many damaged, though.

[peterloo]

I dunno what you guys are saying... Dunno anything about US fishes

A question to be resolved - does Mk. 37 evolove from earier Cold War design (Mk.26, etc) and give the basis of Mk.48???

[Donner]

T4...only about 100 were made with 30 being launched. No info on results...if any. Slow torpedo speed (20 knots) combined with it's own noise only made it effective against deep draft vessels going 6-13 knots.

[flintlock]

Originally Posted by Subnuts

but the article on the T5 says that 640 were fired, sinking 45 ships. Doesn't say how many damaged, though.

Yeah I read that too. I'm conviced this info' exists (hey, I'm an optimist) and I'm just hoping to stumble across it on the net. It's not super critical, I'm just really curious about the recorded figures. If anyone else happens upon this info, please cite your source.

Cheers.

[Donner]

Originally Posted by flintlock

If anyone else happens upon this info, please cite your source.

This exact info is listed in Robert Gannon's book Hellions of the Deep, p. 155.

In Robert C. Stern's Type VII U-boats, p. 90, he writes of the 640 T5's fired "just over 6 percent actually found their targets."

In U-boat Commander: A Periscope View of the Battle of the Atlantic by Peter 'Ali' Cremer (p. 162), Cremer states, "Study of log books and other material by the well known German naval expert Professor Jürgen Rohwer showed that of 610 Gnats fired, at the most one third found their target."

In U-boat Command and the Battle of the Atlantic by Jak Mallmann-Showell, p. 155, he writes, "One example of Germany's over-estimation involved with acoustic torpedoes of Type Zaunkönig (T5) which was calculated by the U-boat Command as having had a 50 percent success rate, but after the war it was learned that only 77 ships were sunk using over 700 torpedoes, which made the real success rate around 11 percent."

In John Terraine's The U-boat Wars 1916-1945, p. 640, Professor Jürgen Rohwer stated at the Halifax RCN Conference in October 1985 that "of 464 Zaunkönig-shots we could analyze in detail, 77 were hits..." Terraine also notes on p. 756 that "some U-boat commanders were misled by hearing the detonations of Zaunkönig torpedoes at the end of their runs."

I would venture to say that we will never know the true 'success' rate of the T5.

[flintlock]

I agree, Donner...impossible to know the true figures.

A hearty thank you for the above information and the corresponding sources. Greatly appreciated! (Exactly the type of material I'm looking for).