So It's a Quagmire

So this war is a quagmire? Let's ask a few pertinant questions?
1. How long has the first fully-elected government of Iraq been in office? ANSWER: 10 months. The cut and run crowd really likes to gieve democracy a chance, eh?

2. How long has Iraq had their first full elections? ANSWER: Just over a year ago, ditto the comment on question one.

3. How long has Iraq had their new constitution? ANSWER: About 15 months. How stable was the U. S. Government after its first 15 months?

4.How long has it been since Iraq had its first elected interim President? ANSWER: Less than two years, April 2005.

5. How long has it been since Iraq had its first multi-party election in over 50 years? ANSWER: Just over two years.

So Mr. Pull-Out-Now-Cut-and-Run Democrat(read liberal, secular progressive) we can see how microscopic your commitment to Democracy really is. You're more concerned about being called a Democrat"ic" party than you are committed to Democracy. If this is a quagmire, then you don't have any sense of perspective, not to mention a sense of commitment.

[Letum]

I think that decisions should be made according to the situation, rather then according to principles. I don't know anywhere near enough about the situation in Iraq to know what the best course of action is atm.

What are the immediate goals of the American Armed Forces there? (apart from self defence)

If they do pull out and Iraq is only left with only enough home-grown forces to protect a few government buildings; what would then be the worst case scenario?

What would be the best case scenario after a withdrawal?

*edit* Conversely, what are the best and worst case scenarios if The USA continues the occupation?

[Enigma]

i think the war is an absolute disaster of mismanagemnt, poor planning, and poor leadership, waged under false pretenses, and laughable policy.

Mr. Pull-Out-Now-Cut-and-Run Democrat(read liberal, secular progressive)

Oh! Sorry, you werent talking to me.

Originally Posted by Letum

I think that decisions should be made according to the situation, rather then according to principles. I don't know anywhere near enough about the situation in Iraq to know what the best course of action is atm.

What are the immediate goals of the American Armed Forces there? (apart from self defence)

If they do pull out and Iraq is only left with only enough home-grown forces to protect a few government buildings; what would then be the worst case scenario?

What would be the best case scenario after a withdrawal?

*edit* Conversely, what are the best and worst case scenarios if The USA continues the occupation?

I'll try to answer as best I can, knowing full well you won't change your opinion.

Firstly, if you don't stand for something you will fall for anything. You seem to stand on the premise that every situation has its own answer. That may be true but all decisions are based upon a belief. It is that belief that shapes the course of of how an individual and nations respond. Consequentially principals are always the guiding force.

The immediate goal of the US armed forces is to provide for the security of the democratically elected Iraqi government which in its infancy requires the same protection that France and Spain provided the fledgling US government against the forces of Britain.

The best case scenerio after a withdrawal at this point would be complete anarchy within the borders of Iraq. The worst case scenerio is theater nuclear war based on the words of Iranian leaders visa vis Isreal.

The best case scenerio if the US continues to support the recently elected Iraqi government is a country which can contribute socially, politically, and economically to the betterment of mankind without threatening its neighbors.

I attempted to answer your questions. If I missed one let me know.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by waste gate

I'll try to answer as best I can, knowing full well you won't change your opinion.

Like I said in the first post:
"I don't know anywhere near enough about the situation in Iraq to know what the best course of action is"
i.e I don't have a opinion yet!

Originally Posted by waste gate

Firstly, if you don't stand for something you will fall for anything. You seem to stand on the premise that every situation has its own answer. That may be true but all decisions are based upon a belief. It is that belief that shapes the course of of how an individual and nations respond. Consequentially principals are always the guiding force.

As long as principles/beliefs are able to adapt to the situation, right?

Originally Posted by waste gate

The best case scenario after a withdrawal at this point would be complete anarchy within the borders of Iraq. The worst case scenario is theater nuclear war based on the words of Iranian leaders visa vis Israel.

The best case scenario if the US continues to support the recently elected Iraqi government is a country which can contribute socially, politically, and economically to the betterment of mankind without threatening its neighbors.

Thanks
What would "complete anarchy within the borders of Iraq" be like?

Originally Posted by waste gate

I attempted to answer your questions. If I missed one let me know.

Just one.
You missed the worst case scenario if US forces continue the occupation.

[bradclark1]

So It's a Quagmire

Finally, he see's the truth.

[bradclark1]

What would "complete anarchy within the borders of Iraq" be like?

That happened after the invasion when we didn't plan beyond the battle.

One at a time fellas.
Letum
Worse case scenerio if US forces stay in Iraq.

US and other coalition solders die. People have been dieing for freedom, their own or others, for centuries and all western militaries are a volunteer forces. No one forced them to enlist.


Quote:
So It's a Quagmire
Finally, he see's the truth.

I'll post it again for you.

. How long has the first fully-elected government of Iraq been in office? ANSWER: 10 months. The cut and run crowd really likes to gieve democracy a chance, eh?

2. How long has Iraq had their first full elections? ANSWER: Just over a year ago, ditto the comment on question one.

3. How long has Iraq had their new constitution? ANSWER: About 15 months. How stable was the U. S. Government after its first 15 months?

4.How long has it been since Iraq had its first elected interim President? ANSWER: Less than two years, April 2005.

5. How long has it been since Iraq had its first multi-party election in over 50 years? ANSWER: Just over two years.


regarding not planning beyond the battle: see the above.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by waste gate

1. How long has the first fully-elected government of Iraq been in office? ANSWER: 10 months. The cut and run crowd really likes to gieve democracy a chance, eh?

2. How long has Iraq had their first full elections? ANSWER: Just over a year ago, ditto the comment on question one.

3. How long has Iraq had their new constitution? ANSWER: About 15 months. How stable was the U. S. Government after its first 15 months?

4.How long has it been since Iraq had its first elected interim President? ANSWER: Less than two years, April 2005.

5. How long has it been since Iraq had its first multi-party election in over 50 years? ANSWER: Just over two years.

Doesn't the usual call of "quagmire" refer to the military situation rather than the political one? I mean, it's often mentioned along with a Vietnam comparison, a military reference.
And your classification of Democrats at the end ..

So Mr. Pull-Out-Now-Cut-and-Run Democrat(read liberal, secular progressive)

again is a slur on their military proposals.

Do you mean "quagmire" militarily or poltically?

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Doesn't the usual call of "quagmire" refer to the military situation rather than the political one? I mean, it's often mentioned along with a Vietnam comparison, a military reference.
And your classification of Democrats at the end ..

again is a slur on their military proposals.

Do you mean "quagmire" militarily or poltically?

I think it is universally accepted that it was the politicians, not military defeat, which ended the Viet Nam conflict. The same cut and run ilk which is displayed by democrats today. Also the comparison ibtwn Iraq and Viet Nam is not legitimate. Unless you would like to talk about JFK's role?

[Letum]

Originally Posted by waste gate

One at a time fellas.
Letum
Worse case scenario if US forces stay in Iraq.

US and other coalition solders die.

Does that mean we are already in the worse case scenario?

Originally Posted by Letum

Does that mean we are already in the worse case scenario?

No. The battle for democracy continues unabated.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by waste gate

No. The battle for democracy continues unabated.

Im a little confused now.....
Is US and other coalition solders dieing the worst case scenario if US forces stay in Iraq?

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by waste gate

I think it is universally accepted that it was the politicians, not military defeat, which ended the Viet Nam conflict. The same cut and run ilk which is displayed by democrats today. Also the comparison ibtwn Iraq and Viet Nam is not legitimate. Unless you would like to talk about JFK's role?

Way to miss my point.

You say it's not a quagmire, and provide figures on the political situation.
Usually "quagmire" is used to describe an intractable military situation.
Your characterisation of Democrats was a slur on their military proposals for Iraq.

I never claimed the comparison was authentic, I used it to show how the word quagmire is taken to describe a military situation. I don't want to talk about Vietnam.

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Do you mean "quagmire" militarily or politically?

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Usually "quagmire" is used to describe an intractable military situation.

I never claimed the comparison was authentic, I used it to show how the word quagmire is taken to describe a military situation. I don't want to talk about Vietnam.

Quagmire can also and is used in the political arena. You are using it as a soley military term. At this point I don't believe Iraq is a quagmire either militarily or politically. because you frame it as such doesn't make it so.

Which is the point of my original post. If you cannot see that, well your position is noted.