The way a debate of National politics SHOULD look....

Enigma · 01-25-07, 01:27 PM

I spent a few hours on Youtube last night watching footage of some good old fashioned debates from the House of Commons, between the Prime Minister Tony Blair and his opposition leader David Cameron, (and of course, their respective parties...)

Im originally from England, so I've seen this stuff before, and always watch the house of commons on C-Span here in the US.
The way the issues are debated at length on live Tv, and with the opposition 20 feet away to disagree with you, is unimaginable in this country. I find it wildly entertaining, and frankly, an incredibly sensible and healthy way to promote accountability and to give the people watching a balanced argument for each issue. We dont have anything close to that level od debate in the US. Even the presidential debates at election time are so rigid in structure, that you barely learn anything new...its more about whoever makes the bigger goof....

Search "Tony Blair" on Youtube to see some examples. I love this stuff. I cant imagine any American president in the last 50 years from either side of the aisle lasting 20 minutes in this type of arena...

Dont you think its a helathy way to legislate?

bradclark1 · 01-25-07, 03:06 PM

They set all these ground rules here before they even agree on a debate. Lawyer fare to be sure.

Then they try and find holes in the agreements to try and get the drop on their opponent. It's so set I don't even watch them anymore. The news will bring up any highlights that accidentally happen.
And yes I wish we had unscripted debates.

Oberon · 01-25-07, 03:56 PM

I find some of the Commons debates to be very funny, especially when the whole house goes up in uproar over something. I think it was back when Stephen Byers was about to get fired, and everyone knew that he was for the chop, and he was trying to do a speech in the Commons and getting jeered from every angle, and then one person shouts out:
"Bye! Bye!"

Failing that, there's always a condom of blue powder thrown at the PM to liven things up.

Letum · 01-25-07, 04:05 PM

UK polotics are good. Heres to hopeing it does not change!

STEED · 01-25-07, 04:36 PM

The prime Minister knows all the questions heading his way as they are all vetted.

Take my advice don't ever again vote for the Conservatives or Labour as both of them are well past there sell buy dates, both are complacent and they don't give a toss about you the voter. And don't wast your vote on the wacky Liberals, go and vote for some one else.

Deliver a message we the people have had it up to here with there stinking tax and all there BS.

Letum · 01-25-07, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEED

The prime Minister knows all the questions heading his way as they are all vetted.

You don't watch BBC parliament do you?
haha! you would have a hard time trying to vet my local MP when he is in the house. I know him personally and there is no way you could vet what that guy says!

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEED

Take my advice don't ever again vote for the Conservatives or Labour as both of them are well past there sell buy dates, both are complacent and they don't give a toss about you the voter. And don't wast your vote on the wacky Liberals, go and vote for some one else.

Deliver a message we the people have had it up to here with there stinking tax and all there BS.

You sound like a BNP guy

Please say I'm wrong.

STEED · 01-25-07, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letum

You sound like a BNP guy

Please say I'm wrong.

You are wrong I would never vote for them.

There are plenty of small party's out there to vote for and if your only stuck with the main three in your area complain that's my advice.

Letum · 01-25-07, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEED

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letum

You sound like a BNP guy

Please say I'm wrong.

You are wrong I would never vote for them.

There are plenty of small party's out there to vote for and if your only stuck with the main three in your area complain that's my advice.

Yay! thats a relief! Hope I didnt cause offence

I usually either vote liberal or for independants. I love the idea of politics with out political parties!

The more power can be removed from the central focus of political parties; the more democratic the political system will be.

STEED · 01-25-07, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letum

Yay! thats a relief! Hope I didnt cause offence

Let me check..........No.

Bort · 01-26-07, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Search "Tony Blair" on Youtube to see some examples. I love this stuff. I cant imagine any American president in the last 50 years from either side of the aisle lasting 20 minutes in this type of arena...

The Parliamentary system of government is IMHO a much better system than the US system when it comes to accountability. I think that at a very minimum there should be some equivalent of PM's questions in the US. Parliament also beats the pants of the US Congress when it comes to theater, I had a chance to watch a debate from the gallery at the House of Commons when I visited London a few years back and I enjoyed every minute of it, unlike the US Congress ...

I can however imagine at least one US president not only being capable of going toe to toe with congress but also excelling at it: Lyndon Johnson. It would be great to see as well because Johnson would likely toss out a few F bombs every session!

Skybird · 01-26-07, 05:15 AM

The presence of cameras, and to a lesser degree: microphones, damages the idea, because speakers are aware of their presence and thus make sure their appearance, the content of their speech and how they deliver it is well-designed to please their share of the crowd outside that is watching/listening. It distortes the debate. Ex-chancelllor Helmut Schmidt for the same reason opposed the idea of allowing cameras and mikes in the Bundestag, and labels it as one of the big misfortunes today'S democarcy is suffering from. I think he is right: just look at how far it has come with public politicians craving for media attentition in game shows and stupid TV appearances, talk rounds and the like. So this is another example for that you never can have only one side of a medal, but that all things come at a price that is printed on the other side of the coin: you raise public awareness and "control" of what is going on in parliament - and by that you make sure it becomes more theatralic, shallow, and matching the criterias for a successful TV reality show. And if you leave out cameras and mikes, you will not know what the hell they are spending their time with when dissappearing behind the doors of the parliamentary building.But no matter how the house of commons or the Bundestag is functioning - I do not have the impression that they form wise decisions. Exactly the contrary.

MadMike · 01-26-07, 04:40 PM

Thomas Jefferson's Manual of Parliamentary Practice, adapted 1801-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson%27s_Manual

British Officer- "You call yourself a patriot, and loyal subject to the Crown?"
Hawkeye- "I do not call myself subject to much at all."

01-25-07, 01:27 PM	#1
Enigma The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: At comms depth, obviously. Posts: 1,476 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	The way a debate of National politics SHOULD look.... I spent a few hours on Youtube last night watching footage of some good old fashioned debates from the House of Commons, between the Prime Minister Tony Blair and his opposition leader David Cameron, (and of course, their respective parties...) Im originally from England, so I've seen this stuff before, and always watch the house of commons on C-Span here in the US. The way the issues are debated at length on live Tv, and with the opposition 20 feet away to disagree with you, is unimaginable in this country. I find it wildly entertaining, and frankly, an incredibly sensible and healthy way to promote accountability and to give the people watching a balanced argument for each issue. We dont have anything close to that level od debate in the US. Even the presidential debates at election time are so rigid in structure, that you barely learn anything new...its more about whoever makes the bigger goof.... Search "Tony Blair" on Youtube to see some examples. I love this stuff. I cant imagine any American president in the last 50 years from either side of the aisle lasting 20 minutes in this type of arena... Dont you think its a helathy way to legislate? __________________ "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." -Mark Twain

01-25-07, 04:05 PM	#4
Letum Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: York - UK Posts: 6,079 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	UK polotics are good. Heres to hopeing it does not change! __________________

01-25-07, 04:36 PM	#5
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	The prime Minister knows all the questions heading his way as they are all vetted. Take my advice don't ever again vote for the Conservatives or Labour as both of them are well past there sell buy dates, both are complacent and they don't give a toss about you the voter. And don't wast your vote on the wacky Liberals, go and vote for some one else. Deliver a message we the people have had it up to here with there stinking tax and all there BS. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

01-25-07, 03:06 PM	#2
bradclark1 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Connecticut, USA. Posts: 2,794 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	They set all these ground rules here before they even agree on a debate. Lawyer fare to be sure. Then they try and find holes in the agreements to try and get the drop on their opponent. It's so set I don't even watch them anymore. The news will bring up any highlights that accidentally happen. And yes I wish we had unscripted debates.

01-25-07, 03:56 PM	#3
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	I find some of the Commons debates to be very funny, especially when the whole house goes up in uproar over something. I think it was back when Stephen Byers was about to get fired, and everyone knew that he was for the chop, and he was trying to do a speech in the Commons and getting jeered from every angle, and then one person shouts out: "Bye! Bye!" Failing that, there's always a condom of blue powder thrown at the PM to liven things up.

01-26-07, 05:15 AM	#11
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	The presence of cameras, and to a lesser degree: microphones, damages the idea, because speakers are aware of their presence and thus make sure their appearance, the content of their speech and how they deliver it is well-designed to please their share of the crowd outside that is watching/listening. It distortes the debate. Ex-chancelllor Helmut Schmidt for the same reason opposed the idea of allowing cameras and mikes in the Bundestag, and labels it as one of the big misfortunes today'S democarcy is suffering from. I think he is right: just look at how far it has come with public politicians craving for media attentition in game shows and stupid TV appearances, talk rounds and the like. So this is another example for that you never can have only one side of a medal, but that all things come at a price that is printed on the other side of the coin: you raise public awareness and "control" of what is going on in parliament - and by that you make sure it becomes more theatralic, shallow, and matching the criterias for a successful TV reality show. And if you leave out cameras and mikes, you will not know what the hell they are spending their time with when dissappearing behind the doors of the parliamentary building.But no matter how the house of commons or the Bundestag is functioning - I do not have the impression that they form wise decisions. Exactly the contrary.

01-26-07, 04:40 PM	#12
MadMike Watch Officer Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 342 Downloads: 241 Uploads: 0	Thomas Jefferson's Manual of Parliamentary Practice, adapted 1801- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson%27s_Manual British Officer- "You call yourself a patriot, and loyal subject to the Crown?" Hawkeye- "I do not call myself subject to much at all."