Another poll, but telling

In the latest Fox News poll, just out today, the pollsters asked the following question:
Do you personally want the Iraq plan President Bush announced last week to succeed?
Here are the results:
Overall: 63% Yes 22% No 15% Don’t Know
Democrats: 51% Yes 34% No 15% Don’t Know
Republicans: 79% Yes 11% No 10% Don’t Know Independents 63% Yes 19% No 17% Don’t Know

Even though we have some 150,000 troops in harm’s way and we universally profess to “support the troops,” over 1/3 of our society either wants them to fail or doesn’t know if they want them to succeed. Even more chilling are the results regarding our currently dominant political party. 49% of Democrats either want us to lose in Iraq or “don’t know” if they want us to succeed.

[Tchocky]

It's a needlessly politicised question, bad polling. The question brings in personal views on Bush as opposed to asking clearly defined questions about Iraq.

Even though we have some 150,000 troops in harm’s way and we universally profess to “support the troops,” over 1/3 of our society either wants them to fail or doesn’t know if they want them to succeed. Even more chilling are the results regarding our currently dominant political party. 49% of Democrats either want us to lose in Iraq or “don’t know” if they want us to succeed.

You're falling for it, too. Personally, I'd prefer to see another plan succeed, because I believe Bush's plan will make things worse rather then better. So what hole do I punch? It can only be No or Don't Know.

I'm not surprised at Fox, though. This is rather insidious.

Originally Posted by Tchocky

It's a needlessly politicised question, bad polling. The question brings in personal views on Bush as opposed to asking clearly defined questions about Iraq.

You're falling for it, too. Personally, I'd prefer to see another plan succeed, because I believe Bush's plan will make things worse rather then better. So what hole do I punch? It can only be No or Don't Know.

I'm not surprised at Fox, though. This is rather insidious.

OK, if I see another plan I can discuss its value. Unfortunately I haven't seen this 'other' plan. Perhaps you have. Please enlighten me. I'm open to the possibility.

[bradclark1]

Maybe someone should ask the new commanders what their ideas are.
To some the poll probably means "Should we send more troops over to Iraq"? What exactly is Bush's plan anyway?

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by waste gate

OK, if I see another plan I can discuss its value. Unfortunately I haven't seen this 'other' plan. Perhaps you have. Please enlighten me. I'm open to the possibility.

I wasn't discussing the plan itself, I was using it to show how ther poll is biased. Someone, like me, who believes that Bush's plan would make things worse, would naturally select No or Dont Know. As we can see from the first post, they can then be unfairly labelled as wanting to lose the war. It's a dangerously slanted poll,

Why did you put other in quotation marks?

B/C I am looking for 'another' plan. 'Other' than the current Bush plan. prferably from a policy maker.

Are you still looking for one (an other plan) Tchocky?

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by waste gate

B/C I am looking for 'another' plan. 'Other' than the current Bush plan. prferably from a policy maker.

Ah, so you don't know what Bush"s plan is either besides tossing in another twenty thousand troops that the generals did not want. I think a good plan would be to make Iraqi's do their jobs. I think that has been brought up quite a lot. Sounds like a plan to me.

[Bort]

Like I said I'm open to other plans, I just haven't heard one that makes sense visa vis cut and run.
(re-deploy)

It's not cut and run, its not sending any more troops into the meat grinder, which is what Iraq has become, both in terms of human lives and the readiness and effectiveness of our military. I think that the time has come to face up to the fact that the US has done all it can, and all that remains is to determine how many more US, UK and other coalition soldiers will die before we finally buckle down and make the only real decision there is to make and leave. What I would advocate is a massive infusion of military equipment for the Iraqi army and a phased withdrawl with remaining coalition troops concentrating almost exclusively on training the Iraqi military. Its the worse possible choice, aside from all the others...

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by Bort

It's not cut and run, its not sending any more troops into the meat grinder, which is what Iraq has become, both in terms of human lives and the readiness and effectiveness of our military. I think that the time has come to face up to the fact that the US has done all it can, and all that remains is to determine how many more US, UK and other coalition soldiers will die before we finally buckle down and make the only real decision there is to make and leave. What I would advocate is a massive infusion of military equipment for the Iraqi army and a phased withdrawl with remaining coalition troops concentrating almost exclusively on training the Iraqi military. Its the worse possible choice, aside from all the others...

The so called "meat-grinder" you describe as Iraq has "ground" less than 1% of all coalition forces deployed. I think there is what now, 3,200 deaths in how many years?? Thank God you people weren't around in 1942. Thank God this media was not around during the Battle of the Bulge, Midway, Coral Sea, etc.

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

The so called "meat-grinder" you describe as Iraq has "ground" less than 1% of all coalition forces deployed. I think there is what now, 3,200 deaths in how many years?? Thank God you people weren't around in 1942. Thank God this media was not around during the Battle of the Bulge, Midway, Coral Sea, etc.

Great point Sea Demon!!! Yet I haven't heard another plan from these folks.
I will now assume they have none, and their opposition to the current Bush plan is their politics. Not' what is best for the US.

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by waste gate

Great point Sea Demon!!! Yet I haven't heard another plan from these folks.
I will now assume they have none, and their opposition to the current Bush plan is their politics. Not' what is best for the US.

You don't even know what Bush's plan is. Their isn't one. We have a deficient president who can't seem to understand that 'Hey, this isn't working! Lets try something else'. He completely ignored the Iraq panel.
I'll tell you what this presidents plan is seeing as nobody's figured it out yet. Keep the troops in Iraq doing the same thing that isn't working then dump it on the next president. The voters told this failure that the same thing is not working so change it. Yes, even the average American voter can see what this president doesn't. You tell these Iraqi leaders to get off their butts and do their jobs for once and start right now or we stop propping them up.
Stop trying to put western psychology in a middle eastern mind. Make them put up.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

You don't even know what Bush's plan is. Their isn't one. We have a deficient president who can't seem to understand that 'Hey, this isn't working! Lets try something else'. He completely ignored the Iraq panel.
I'll tell you what this presidents plan is seeing as nobody's figured it out yet. Keep the troops in Iraq doing the same thing that isn't working then dump it on the next president. The voters told this failure that the same thing is not working so change it. Yes, even the average American voter can see what this president doesn't. You tell these Iraqi leaders to get off their butts and do their jobs for once and start right now or we stop propping them up.
Stop trying to put western psychology in a middle eastern mind. Make them put up.

Bush admitted mistakes, and also said he was changing tactics. What else do you want? You want him to give a press conference on what those tactics are? Do you want Bush to give a national press conference on what locations troops will be at, their compositions, and when we'll move? Why not invite Muqtada Al-Sadr to the front row? I don't think you or other Democrats are that important that yuou need to know exaclty how a commander in chief, his military advisors or military leaders are going to commence from this point. You Democrats are too full of yourselves.

[bradclark1]

Their will be no honor "re-deploying" (surrender) our military while the region goes into deeper chaos.

BINGO!! Even you see it yet you steadfastly support a president who doesn't!

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

The so called "meat-grinder" you describe as Iraq has "ground" less than 1% of all coalition forces deployed. I think there is what now, 3,200 deaths in how many years?? Thank God you people weren't around in 1942. Thank God this media was not around during the Battle of the Bulge, Midway, Coral Sea, etc.

They are hardly similiar situations.
And yeah, I'm glad I wasn't around in 1942.

Waste_gate, the poll isn't just flawed, it's actively malignant, misleading, and constructed to serve a particular agenda..