DD evasion

kutterreddogg · 12-27-06, 01:10 AM

i agree with several posts here. Once even the most unsophisticated surface unit comes within range, they track you forever. I have been tracked by armed trawlers with no asdic and DD with asdic. GWX logic is perfect for them and no evasion is possible far as I can see. I have save game prior to all these encounters and have played GW a lot. Something needs adjustment in the GWX logic or soon as you contact a DD you are dead. Great graphics but not a very playable game. I ame an old Navy veteran and DDs did not do this well, especially in 1939.

kutterreddogg · 12-27-06, 01:12 AM

i agree with several posts here. Once even the most unsophisticated surface unit comes within range, they track you forever. I have been tracked by armed trawlers with no asdic and DD with asdic. GWX logic is perfect for them and no evasion is possible far as I can see. I have save game prior to all these encounters and have played GW a lot. Something needs adjustment in the GWX logic or soon as you contact a DD you are dead. Great graphics but not a very playable game. I ame an old Navy veteran and DDs did not do this well, especially in 1939.

Ducimus · 12-27-06, 01:23 AM

If your an old navy vet then this is probably preaching to the choir.

Simply put:

- Weather conditions effect the AI's sonar abilities. The calm conditions being perfect sonar conditions, rough weather they can't hear a whole lot. The calmer the weather, the more prudent and careful you should consider situations.

- How much noise your making is dependant on how many RPM's your e-motors are doing. In calm weather, you must be doing less then 100 RPM's. You'll have to manually set speed to 1 kt (or less).

- AI active sonar is acutally an indicator if your screwing up. The AI doesnt Ping at random. The AI only pings when:

A.) your within his sonar cone
b.) Your presenting a favorable aspect
c.) Your doing both A and B for X amount of time.

And im sure to an old navy vet, these two pictures shouldnt require a whole lot of explanation im guessing:

clayton · 12-27-06, 01:43 AM

I agree, but in 1942 England had only 40+ techs to work on their ASW sets!(Blair: The Hunters). Your theory of ASW warfare is 'spot on', but the game leaves too little unpredictability in! It's not about wether the sets work to their fullest capacity, it's about all the reasons why they 'didn't' work that, among other things, was the reason why life was so good to Germany from 39 - 42. At least, until ASW #'s increased, more techs, better equipment, etc... Hell, I'm in the military today and our radio's dont even work correct all of the time.

AVGWarhawk · 12-27-06, 09:02 AM

I have to disagree with not being able to elude the DD. I have been toying with two of them protecting a convoy. Including an armed trawler. Three times I have purposly made noise to get their attention and I have eluded them all three times. Sure they hang close on the surface to me but speed off to the convoy after about an 1/2 hour. They throw DC without much accuracy at all. Realise this is 1939 I'm doing this. Furthermore I damaged a merchant that has finally lagged behind the convoy and alone. I surfaced for gun action and the DD about 5000m off cannot hit me worth a crap with their cannons. Actually, I'm starting to get darn cocky with the DD....

I evade using:
Depth: 150 or so meters
Speed: 2kts
Silent running.
Change course every 5 minutes or so.

Currently it is almost dark and I'm planning on a rear attack on the convoy, surfaced! Lets see if the DD find me

I like the GWX warships....make it more challenging!

12-27-06, 06:25 PM

I concur with AVGWarhawk.

Have used most of to days to sneak pased one Hunt I and one patrol boat into Freetown.

Its May 1942 and pretty clear weather. It's very shallow waters (25 meters) but even thought the Hunt picked me up with ASDIC and made a couple of runs (lost me on the run in and came up behind me at the drops) i could sneak into the harbour at 2 kts.

And that was a nice sight.....a Troop Transport and a Medium tanker all tied up to the pier's. Soon the Hunt and patrol boat steamed into the harbour to look for me. But light had vanished like me. i backed out of the western harbour entry, surfaced and whamed out of there on the surface.

BTW - if you go to Freetown - be aware of the subnet. I ran straight into it on my approach where i tried to set up a post out side the harbour between some ankered merchants.

TarJak · 12-27-06, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kutterreddogg

i agree with several posts here. Once even the most unsophisticated surface unit comes within range, they track you forever. I have been tracked by armed trawlers with no asdic and DD with asdic. GWX logic is perfect for them and no evasion is possible far as I can see. I have save game prior to all these encounters and have played GW a lot. Something needs adjustment in the GWX logic or soon as you contact a DD you are dead. Great graphics but not a very playable game. I ame an old Navy veteran and DDs did not do this well, especially in 1939.

Sorry I have to disagree with you. My only beef is that they can detect you when you should be masked by convoy engine noise and when you are not making much noise, but above the 100rpm Ducimus mentioned.

Check out these posts about post 1942 tactics re evasion. Not only is it possible but also very plausible that DDs will hang around looking for you and if you make enough noise they will continue to do so until they kill you.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=102701

I believe the Dec23rd patch for GWX "fixes" the silent running problem where you are actually doing something like 3kts well over the 100rpm "silent" limit. Try it with this patched and try to keep quiet whenever the escorts are around just like a real Kaleun would.

AS i said my only problem comes from intial contact when you should be able to make a little more noise than normal i.e.; inside a convoy. Mind you this is more related to how underwater sound is modelled in stock SHIII than GWX. If you go near an island or into a harbour you can "hear" and get an accurate bearing to a surface vessel on the other side of a solid mass.

Now I may not know enough about physics to be a professor in it, but I know enough that sound does not travel well through thick solid objects even underwater and if it was echoes or distortions around the object your bearing would be towards the anaomoly not the actual source.

12-27-06, 01:10 AM	#1
kutterreddogg Watch Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: maryland Posts: 24 Downloads: 56 Uploads: 0	DD evasion i agree with several posts here. Once even the most unsophisticated surface unit comes within range, they track you forever. I have been tracked by armed trawlers with no asdic and DD with asdic. GWX logic is perfect for them and no evasion is possible far as I can see. I have save game prior to all these encounters and have played GW a lot. Something needs adjustment in the GWX logic or soon as you contact a DD you are dead. Great graphics but not a very playable game. I ame an old Navy veteran and DDs did not do this well, especially in 1939.

12-27-06, 09:02 AM	#5
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,253 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	I have to disagree with not being able to elude the DD. I have been toying with two of them protecting a convoy. Including an armed trawler. Three times I have purposly made noise to get their attention and I have eluded them all three times. Sure they hang close on the surface to me but speed off to the convoy after about an 1/2 hour. They throw DC without much accuracy at all. Realise this is 1939 I'm doing this. Furthermore I damaged a merchant that has finally lagged behind the convoy and alone. I surfaced for gun action and the DD about 5000m off cannot hit me worth a crap with their cannons. Actually, I'm starting to get darn cocky with the DD.... I evade using: Depth: 150 or so meters Speed: 2kts Silent running. Change course every 5 minutes or so. Currently it is almost dark and I'm planning on a rear attack on the convoy, surfaced! Lets see if the DD find me I like the GWX warships....make it more challenging! __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

12-27-06, 01:12 AM	#2
kutterreddogg Watch Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: maryland Posts: 24 Downloads: 56 Uploads: 0	i agree with several posts here. Once even the most unsophisticated surface unit comes within range, they track you forever. I have been tracked by armed trawlers with no asdic and DD with asdic. GWX logic is perfect for them and no evasion is possible far as I can see. I have save game prior to all these encounters and have played GW a lot. Something needs adjustment in the GWX logic or soon as you contact a DD you are dead. Great graphics but not a very playable game. I ame an old Navy veteran and DDs did not do this well, especially in 1939.

12-27-06, 01:23 AM	#3
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	If your an old navy vet then this is probably preaching to the choir. Simply put: - Weather conditions effect the AI's sonar abilities. The calm conditions being perfect sonar conditions, rough weather they can't hear a whole lot. The calmer the weather, the more prudent and careful you should consider situations. - How much noise your making is dependant on how many RPM's your e-motors are doing. In calm weather, you must be doing less then 100 RPM's. You'll have to manually set speed to 1 kt (or less). - AI active sonar is acutally an indicator if your screwing up. The AI doesnt Ping at random. The AI only pings when: A.) your within his sonar cone b.) Your presenting a favorable aspect c.) Your doing both A and B for X amount of time. And im sure to an old navy vet, these two pictures shouldnt require a whole lot of explanation im guessing:

12-27-06, 01:43 AM	#4
clayton Samurai Navy Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: At your mom's house... Posts: 571 Downloads: 218 Uploads: 0	I agree, but in 1942 England had only 40+ techs to work on their ASW sets!(Blair: The Hunters). Your theory of ASW warfare is 'spot on', but the game leaves too little unpredictability in! It's not about wether the sets work to their fullest capacity, it's about all the reasons why they 'didn't' work that, among other things, was the reason why life was so good to Germany from 39 - 42. At least, until ASW #'s increased, more techs, better equipment, etc... Hell, I'm in the military today and our radio's dont even work correct all of the time.

12-27-06, 06:25 PM	#6
Mav87th Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I concur with AVGWarhawk. Have used most of to days to sneak pased one Hunt I and one patrol boat into Freetown. Its May 1942 and pretty clear weather. It's very shallow waters (25 meters) but even thought the Hunt picked me up with ASDIC and made a couple of runs (lost me on the run in and came up behind me at the drops) i could sneak into the harbour at 2 kts. And that was a nice sight.....a Troop Transport and a Medium tanker all tied up to the pier's. Soon the Hunt and patrol boat steamed into the harbour to look for me. But light had vanished like me. i backed out of the western harbour entry, surfaced and whamed out of there on the surface. BTW - if you go to Freetown - be aware of the subnet. I ran straight into it on my approach where i tried to set up a post out side the harbour between some ankered merchants.