"Iron Coffins"

VIICDriver · 11-17-06, 01:56 PM

Many of you may already know this so disregard but those who do not I highly suggest picking up the book "Iron Coffins" by Herbert Werner.

He is a decorated Captain of the war who actually survived it and the book is his account of the war through several different U-boats he served on.

It is gripping actually and tells alot about the "nuts and bolts" of hunting especially early in the book. Being an American I have never really seen the war through a Germans' eyes but I must admit it is also very sad towards the end.

The Germans friend or foe, (especially their navy) operated very honorably. He tells of early in the war of sinking a ship and even though he knew destroyers were en route they took the time to issue an SOS for the men in the water because monitoring their freq during the attack he knew they did not get off one. Just the little things like that make this book an EXCELLENT read. It will give your SH3 all new life with some of the inside information available in it.

Sorry to ramble but I highly recommend this one.
I am very near the end of the read now.

Chuck

Ducimus · 11-17-06, 02:37 PM

Yup, ive read it twice. Good book.

AVGWarhawk · 11-17-06, 02:40 PM

I have read this book but find the ending chapters a little flowery in description of escape when the war was over. Just my humble opinion. He should have fled to Brazil!!!!

Ducimus · 11-17-06, 02:45 PM

I thought the whole forieign legion thing was a little embellishment But then, how would any of us really know unless we were alive and in the area at the time to hear about it? That said, his treatment by the allies at the end i doubt is embellshed much, if any at all.

Ive read another memior and his experience is relatively the same. Its shameful to see we didn't really act very noble or respecting towards POW's.

melnibonian · 11-17-06, 02:53 PM

Yes it's a great book. I've read it some time ago and I loved it. He was also quite a....ladies man

AVGWarhawk · 11-17-06, 02:53 PM

Yes, the foriegn legions could probably been omitted but like I said, this was my humble opinion because I could never fit in his shoes no matter what I do and if he wants that in the book then more power too him!!!

Kingcobra24 · 11-17-06, 03:55 PM

I have the book "Iron Coffins" from the original printing in 1969, as well as "The Killing Time: The German U-Boats 1914-1918" published in 1972. Both excellent books.

con20or · 11-17-06, 05:39 PM

Yeh its a great book, but he claims he was in the attack on SC122 and HX 229 (i might be wrong on the convoy names, been a while since I read about them) They were major convoy battles in march 1943, just before the uboats got beaten propoerly.

Any book about those convoys doesnt list his boat in the action though:hmm:

Also he seems to have single handedly bedded every woman in France & Germany...

Wulfmann · 11-17-06, 06:45 PM

I have this book and have used it as a guide to tweak my SH3 for effect.
But, this was written from recollection and it is not historically accurate regarding dates names etc and has been labeled as near fiction by the modern German navy.
This might be for some not so flattering things he mentioned particularly the non written order to use U-Boats to ram allied ships at Normandy which he also says was recanted before any such attacks were made. Other areas of not so nice attitudes might well not be desirable today to admit. I do not believe he was trying to knock down his mates just give an honest account of the pressure men were under in trying times.
I also don’t think the few girls he mentioned was over blown (no pun intended but it does kinda work!:rotfl: ) and his being left hanging seems to balance out his success in bed.
Note he never made a confirmed kill as his own as Kaleun. I do not think he was trying to embellish anything but give an honest account albeit from memory which can always have some variation and he admits that.
However, the most relevant aspect was how well he recreates the feeling of life on the boat and particularly surviving depth charging attacks.
I have also added elcos out side my ports as well as near by DD patrols post D-Day and believe me that resounds of Iron Coffins when one must sneak into and out of port.
I believe my SH3 is much better because of Iron Coffins as a reverence guide to getting the feeling of various aspects of serving on a boat. For that I find it the most useful of all the U-Boat books I have, even Das Boot!

Wulfmann

Ducimus · 11-17-06, 07:20 PM

I dont think hes stories about his private/love life were too much of a stretch. Having been a GI oversea's myself, i know all to well what he was talking about in some passages.

Han's Gruebler's "Steel boat, Iron Hearts" gives the enlisted man's point of view on alot of things, Nightlife included, and it's about the same thing, and again, some of it sounds all too familiar :P

mookiemookie · 11-17-06, 08:53 PM

I loved Iron Coffins. And I do forgive Werner for embellishing his (at the time) 25 year old memories. It was a great read and really put you in the mindset of these men.

When I was done reading it, I gave the book to my father as he said he hadn't read a lot of German U-boat material. My father served on the USS Skate in the late 60's and, while that was a bit after the WW2 era, after he finished it he said that book was spot on when it comes to what it was like being a submariner.

VIICDriver · 11-17-06, 11:18 PM

Yeah I think he mentions in the foreward or somewhere that the book was written from recollection and therefor could have some inaccuracies. As far as his boat not being listed in convoy battles he states he was in that happens all the time. Sometimes you'd get into one and get out quickly for whatever reason with no kills and therefor you were not there! It was a mayhem as war is and things gets smudged but I believe he fairly gave the account to the best of his ability.

As far as the "bedding", Hey it was war and I do not swing that way but by his pics I'd call him good looking for a sailor and everyone back then thought "I'll probably be dead tomorrow." I have heard of the meeting with the fairer sex tales from soldiers on both sides both land and sea. Alot of us on this forum are here now to verify that fact! LOL

Any other ones you guys come up with like this one let me know. First hand accounts like this I mean. I do not care to read .."On the 11th of Oct. U-693 and U-230 attacked a convoy in AM32 then..." etc. I have been riveted by this book and was really struck with sadness when hearing about his family and how he found out about it. About 20 pages left and every time I read a little of it I find myself firing up SH3!!

Chuck

BTW - Is Herr Warners pic included in the SH3 commander pic archive? I looked through them and see none that really look like him. As I look through those pics I feel like I'm looking at a bunch of soldiers who now lie somewhere on the ocean floor.

USS Sea Tiger · 11-17-06, 11:27 PM

Read it about 4 times now, Learn something new each time

Most of all,, prior to reading this, as a kid, I was always more interested in the air war and was always in trouble. I had read nothing of the U-boats or sea for that matter. While In Juvi hall for some stupid things a councler gave me this very book,

His writings mesmerized me with the sea,, and started my life on a whole new venture. I changed my life style so that I could someday go to sea. I joined the military, Army,, but the draw of the Sea was too strong, and I shifted to the Coast Guard after 6 years, Ironically my first ship, CGC Ingham had Sunk U-626 during WWII. I served and then retired with 16 years sea time.
Now, I am 44, working for the Coast Guard as a Civilian,, as a search and rescue Coord for Texas and La waters.
All because a friend gave me this volume and it changed my life forever. Funny how something so seemingly minor as giving a book, and reading anothers life can so drastically alter your own and set your life in a different path.

I only wish that I could have met this gentleman,, and told him how his book altered mine, and set me on a sucessful path for life.

VIICDriver · 11-17-06, 11:34 PM

I heard he was an American now living in Florida but have no clue as to whether or not he is still alive. Like you I would love to have met or meet him! He'd kick me out for asking too many questions!

Very interesting post U-94. Yeah life is full of small things that change it in a big way. I think of how I met my wife and what things would be like if I had not been working on THAT machine THAT day. Just stuff like that but everything happens for a reason, I used to not believe it but she always does and over time I have come to see how true it is.

Like you were when younger I am more of an aviator, current student pilot in a Piper Warrior but I'm beginning to think there is alot in common between the air and water. I see alot of similarities in the two.

Chuck

Jimbuna · 11-18-06, 06:07 AM

One of the better U-boat reads in my ever growing library

11-17-06, 01:56 PM	#1
VIICDriver Engineer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Lynchburg, VA Posts: 203 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	"Iron Coffins" Many of you may already know this so disregard but those who do not I highly suggest picking up the book "Iron Coffins" by Herbert Werner. He is a decorated Captain of the war who actually survived it and the book is his account of the war through several different U-boats he served on. It is gripping actually and tells alot about the "nuts and bolts" of hunting especially early in the book. Being an American I have never really seen the war through a Germans' eyes but I must admit it is also very sad towards the end. The Germans friend or foe, (especially their navy) operated very honorably. He tells of early in the war of sinking a ship and even though he knew destroyers were en route they took the time to issue an SOS for the men in the water because monitoring their freq during the attack he knew they did not get off one. Just the little things like that make this book an EXCELLENT read. It will give your SH3 all new life with some of the inside information available in it. Sorry to ramble but I highly recommend this one. I am very near the end of the read now. Chuck

11-17-06, 02:40 PM	#3
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,254 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	I have read this book but find the ending chapters a little flowery in description of escape when the war was over. Just my humble opinion. He should have fled to Brazil!!!! __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

11-17-06, 02:53 PM	#5
melnibonian Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Reading UK Posts: 3,473 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Yes it's a great book. I've read it some time ago and I loved it. He was also quite a....ladies man __________________ http://www.thegreywolves.com/ http://wolvesatwar.com/ Download GWX and other goodies: http://hosted.filefront.com/melnibonian

11-17-06, 02:53 PM	#6
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,254 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Yes, the foriegn legions could probably been omitted but like I said, this was my humble opinion because I could never fit in his shoes no matter what I do and if he wants that in the book then more power too him!!! __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

11-17-06, 03:55 PM	#7
Kingcobra24 Soundman Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Maine, USA Posts: 142 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I have the book "Iron Coffins" from the original printing in 1969, as well as "The Killing Time: The German U-Boats 1914-1918" published in 1972. Both excellent books. __________________

11-17-06, 02:37 PM	#2
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Yup, ive read it twice. Good book.

11-17-06, 02:45 PM	#4
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	I thought the whole forieign legion thing was a little embellishment But then, how would any of us really know unless we were alive and in the area at the time to hear about it? That said, his treatment by the allies at the end i doubt is embellshed much, if any at all. Ive read another memior and his experience is relatively the same. Its shameful to see we didn't really act very noble or respecting towards POW's.

11-17-06, 05:39 PM	#8
con20or Lieutenant Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ireland Posts: 269 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Yeh its a great book, but he claims he was in the attack on SC122 and HX 229 (i might be wrong on the convoy names, been a while since I read about them) They were major convoy battles in march 1943, just before the uboats got beaten propoerly. Any book about those convoys doesnt list his boat in the action though:hmm: Also he seems to have single handedly bedded every woman in France & Germany... __________________ QA Lead on Scourge of War - http://www.scourgeofwar.com/index.shtml (98% rating on Armchair general) - http://www.armchairgeneral.com/scour...ame-review.htm SoW Waterloo Announced for 2015!!

11-17-06, 06:45 PM	#9
Wulfmann Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 1,010 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I have this book and have used it as a guide to tweak my SH3 for effect. But, this was written from recollection and it is not historically accurate regarding dates names etc and has been labeled as near fiction by the modern German navy. This might be for some not so flattering things he mentioned particularly the non written order to use U-Boats to ram allied ships at Normandy which he also says was recanted before any such attacks were made. Other areas of not so nice attitudes might well not be desirable today to admit. I do not believe he was trying to knock down his mates just give an honest account of the pressure men were under in trying times. I also don’t think the few girls he mentioned was over blown (no pun intended but it does kinda work!:rotfl: ) and his being left hanging seems to balance out his success in bed. Note he never made a confirmed kill as his own as Kaleun. I do not think he was trying to embellish anything but give an honest account albeit from memory which can always have some variation and he admits that. However, the most relevant aspect was how well he recreates the feeling of life on the boat and particularly surviving depth charging attacks. I have also added elcos out side my ports as well as near by DD patrols post D-Day and believe me that resounds of Iron Coffins when one must sneak into and out of port. I believe my SH3 is much better because of Iron Coffins as a reverence guide to getting the feeling of various aspects of serving on a boat. For that I find it the most useful of all the U-Boat books I have, even Das Boot! Wulfmann __________________ "The right to keep and bear arms should not be infringed upon, if only to prevent tyranny in government" Thomas Jefferson,; Constitutional debates

11-17-06, 07:20 PM	#10
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	I dont think hes stories about his private/love life were too much of a stretch. Having been a GI oversea's myself, i know all to well what he was talking about in some passages. Han's Gruebler's "Steel boat, Iron Hearts" gives the enlisted man's point of view on alot of things, Nightlife included, and it's about the same thing, and again, some of it sounds all too familiar :P

11-17-06, 08:53 PM	#11
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	I loved Iron Coffins. And I do forgive Werner for embellishing his (at the time) 25 year old memories. It was a great read and really put you in the mindset of these men. When I was done reading it, I gave the book to my father as he said he hadn't read a lot of German U-boat material. My father served on the USS Skate in the late 60's and, while that was a bit after the WW2 era, after he finished it he said that book was spot on when it comes to what it was like being a submariner. __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here. Last edited by mookiemookie; 11-17-06 at 09:07 PM.

11-17-06, 11:18 PM	#12
VIICDriver Engineer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Lynchburg, VA Posts: 203 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Yeah I think he mentions in the foreward or somewhere that the book was written from recollection and therefor could have some inaccuracies. As far as his boat not being listed in convoy battles he states he was in that happens all the time. Sometimes you'd get into one and get out quickly for whatever reason with no kills and therefor you were not there! It was a mayhem as war is and things gets smudged but I believe he fairly gave the account to the best of his ability. As far as the "bedding", Hey it was war and I do not swing that way but by his pics I'd call him good looking for a sailor and everyone back then thought "I'll probably be dead tomorrow." I have heard of the meeting with the fairer sex tales from soldiers on both sides both land and sea. Alot of us on this forum are here now to verify that fact! LOL Any other ones you guys come up with like this one let me know. First hand accounts like this I mean. I do not care to read .."On the 11th of Oct. U-693 and U-230 attacked a convoy in AM32 then..." etc. I have been riveted by this book and was really struck with sadness when hearing about his family and how he found out about it. About 20 pages left and every time I read a little of it I find myself firing up SH3!! Chuck BTW - Is Herr Warners pic included in the SH3 commander pic archive? I looked through them and see none that really look like him. As I look through those pics I feel like I'm looking at a bunch of soldiers who now lie somewhere on the ocean floor.

11-17-06, 11:27 PM	#13
USS Sea Tiger XO Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 425 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	I have had thi book since about 1977 Read it about 4 times now, Learn something new each time Most of all,, prior to reading this, as a kid, I was always more interested in the air war and was always in trouble. I had read nothing of the U-boats or sea for that matter. While In Juvi hall for some stupid things a councler gave me this very book, His writings mesmerized me with the sea,, and started my life on a whole new venture. I changed my life style so that I could someday go to sea. I joined the military, Army,, but the draw of the Sea was too strong, and I shifted to the Coast Guard after 6 years, Ironically my first ship, CGC Ingham had Sunk U-626 during WWII. I served and then retired with 16 years sea time. Now, I am 44, working for the Coast Guard as a Civilian,, as a search and rescue Coord for Texas and La waters. All because a friend gave me this volume and it changed my life forever. Funny how something so seemingly minor as giving a book, and reading anothers life can so drastically alter your own and set your life in a different path. I only wish that I could have met this gentleman,, and told him how his book altered mine, and set me on a sucessful path for life.

11-17-06, 11:34 PM	#14
VIICDriver Engineer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Lynchburg, VA Posts: 203 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I heard he was an American now living in Florida but have no clue as to whether or not he is still alive. Like you I would love to have met or meet him! He'd kick me out for asking too many questions! Very interesting post U-94. Yeah life is full of small things that change it in a big way. I think of how I met my wife and what things would be like if I had not been working on THAT machine THAT day. Just stuff like that but everything happens for a reason, I used to not believe it but she always does and over time I have come to see how true it is. Like you were when younger I am more of an aviator, current student pilot in a Piper Warrior but I'm beginning to think there is alot in common between the air and water. I see alot of similarities in the two. Chuck

11-18-06, 06:07 AM	#15
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,500 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	One of the better U-boat reads in my ever growing library __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!