Bottoming. Is it possible is SH3?

Oldgamer48 · 10-29-06, 07:44 PM

I know that this has probably been brought up on the website, before, but I've got to ask.

Is it possible to ground your boat in shallow water, without taking damage? Or can the game engine manage such a feat.

Recently, I was attacked by a DD in shallow water (100-90 meters). I still managed to evade damage from him. Then, my sonarman said that there was another warship approaching, high speed. It was at this moment that I wanted to become part of the "bottom clutter".

If it is possible, how is it done?

Warmonger · 10-29-06, 07:56 PM

IIRC the sub will suffer continuous damage while bottoming so I would not rely on that. But I can't say it for sure.
To be a sitting duck isn't a good choice anyway, stay on the move and try to evade and escape.

Ducimus · 10-29-06, 08:16 PM

You can bottom the boat in SH3. The trick is to lighly touch the bottom and the lowest possible speed. (like 0 to 0.5 to 1kts) If your slammed against the bottom, such as in rough weather, you'll take hull damage.

zzsteven · 10-29-06, 08:32 PM

Setting the boat on the bottom won't hide you from the DD's.

zz

SubConscious · 10-29-06, 08:39 PM

I bottomed my IXB last night in about 90 meters of water. Some kind of random event appeared to be affecting my electric engines and I couldn't maintain depth very well, and as I was being pursued by two C-Class destroyers, I decided to let her settle slowly to the bottom. I touched lightly with engines at 1 knot and still suffered minor damage and one percent of hull integrity. In this circumstance, the tactic worked - they never found me. This was likely due to the fact that I "got out of Dodge" by moving at flank speed away from where they originally spotted me, figuring that while the destroyers were charging towards me at 34 knots that they wouldn't be able to detect me anyway.

If the enemy has already detected you, bottoming out is suicide. They'll ping and depth charge you until you run out of air and are forced to surface. I've experienced this first hand.

Also note that in the game, getting close to the bottom is considered the same as being close to land in terms of time compression, so unless you adjust this value (e.g., SH3 Commander allows this option), you'll be playing in real-time until you raise up your boat a few meters.

Good luck and good hunting!

Oldgamer48 · 10-29-06, 10:09 PM

Thanks for all the responses. It's good to know what the consequences of an action will be, before you do it!

By the way, I like the atmosphere at subsim.com rather the petty politics at a certain Total War website that will go unnamed. You can ask a question and get it answered. People are helpful, and give good insight into what to expect. Good site!

Payoff · 10-29-06, 11:27 PM

I have done this with a IXB in 60 meters and had the DD's lose contact. The trick is to keep dive planes diving after you touch bottom to keep you from sliding around, causing damage. Think of it as an anchor.

Oldgamer48 · 10-30-06, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Payoff

I have done this with a IXB in 60 meters and had the DD's lose contact. The trick is to keep dive planes diving after you touch bottom to keep you from sliding around, causing damage. Think of it as an anchor.

That's what I was looking for. After all, the sonar in WWII was not really capable of picking out a specific target amid ground clutter. Thanks!

Is there a specific keystroke for the diveplanes, or do you just set your ordered depth a couple of meters below the bottom? One last question: Did your IXB have the rubber coating on the hull (on the assumption that it might have worked for that, but not for a VIIb in 1942)?

WhiteW0lf · 10-30-06, 12:58 AM

I did this last night in my VIIC due to heavy flooding and damage, I was at 99 meters and just hit all stop saw that I had 1 meter under my keel and clicked dive to 1 to 2 more meters it touched down slightly with no damage, but your boat rocks back an forth.

U-snafu · 10-30-06, 01:03 AM

Just hit "d" on the keyboard while your at okts--no need to set the depth.

P_Funk · 10-30-06, 01:22 AM

I read in the book "U-boat Killer", the auto-biography of a well known escort captain's war time experiences, about how during Overload his escort group was assigned clearing the channel of U-boats expected to attack the landings. They said that they had many bad asdic contacts of large rocks and already sunken ships that might have been bottomed u-boats. Sometimes they'd depth charge long since sunken u-boats. The other thing was that the contacts were far from easy to make. The captain commented that he was lucky that his asdic operator was unusually qualified. Think of him being like "Jonesy" in Red October. Even then he was pretty hit and miss since a stationary sub bottomed looks a heck of alot like normal seabed detritus.

However the SH3 engine leaves alot to be desired. Hopefully SH4 might improve this. However the Japanese weren't the British so the experience won't be the same.

Steeltrap · 10-30-06, 07:05 PM

I seem to recall Churchill commenting that "bottoming" is something more likely to occur in the Royal Navy.....

"Traditions of the Navy? I'll give you traditions of the Navy - rum, buggery and the lash!" (something like that - haven't looked up the specific quote but it's a beaut!)

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

_Seth_ · 10-31-06, 12:49 AM

Isnt it possible to make the seabed less flat? Its unnaturally flat all the time. Just some crevasses and underwater valleys....couldnt be that difficult. I think virtual sailor managed to do that...

:hmm:

Frenssen · 10-31-06, 06:13 AM

With the NYGM mod you can slowly sink to the bottom at 0 knots as the boat will lose bouyance without speed. I have done this many times while waiting out storms and I suffer no damage.

abel29a · 10-31-06, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeltrap

I seem to recall Churchill commenting that "bottoming" is something more likely to occur in the Royal Navy.....

"Traditions of the Navy? I'll give you traditions of the Navy - rum, buggery and the lash!" (something like that - haven't looked up the specific quote but it's a beaut!)

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Hehe that was pretty close - the correct one is: "Don't talk to me about Naval Traditions! It's nothing but rum, buggery and the lash." Sadly, it wasnt Winston who said it, altough it was (and is) widely believed. However, Churchill did say he wished he had made the remark, so we'll accept it as a genuine Churchill quote anyway

As for bottoming and the TC trick in SH Commander - if you rest at the bottom at high TC you will suffer continuous damage, but at low TC it's usually okay.

10-29-06, 07:44 PM	#1
Oldgamer48 Bosun Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Illinois, too far from the sea, but close to U-505! Posts: 61 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	Bottoming. Is it possible is SH3? I know that this has probably been brought up on the website, before, but I've got to ask. Is it possible to ground your boat in shallow water, without taking damage? Or can the game engine manage such a feat. Recently, I was attacked by a DD in shallow water (100-90 meters). I still managed to evade damage from him. Then, my sonarman said that there was another warship approaching, high speed. It was at this moment that I wanted to become part of the "bottom clutter". If it is possible, how is it done?

10-29-06, 11:27 PM	#7
Payoff Captain Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Nash Town, USA Posts: 525 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I have done this with a IXB in 60 meters and had the DD's lose contact. The trick is to keep dive planes diving after you touch bottom to keep you from sliding around, causing damage. Think of it as an anchor. __________________ "Hit Shokaku class carrier with three out of six torpedos. Recieved 105 depth charges during three hour period. Heard four terrific explosions in the direction of target, two and one half hours after attack. Believe that baby sank!" Lieutenant Commander Herman Kossler USS Cavalla

10-30-06, 01:03 AM	#10
U-snafu XO Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: North Carolina Posts: 405 Downloads: 28 Uploads: 0	Just hit "d" on the keyboard while your at okts--no need to set the depth. __________________ .."Some men are born mediocre, some men acheive mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them"... Last edited by U-snafu; 10-30-06 at 01:56 AM.

10-30-06, 01:22 AM	#11
P_Funk Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 2,537 Downloads: 129 Uploads: 0	I read in the book "U-boat Killer", the auto-biography of a well known escort captain's war time experiences, about how during Overload his escort group was assigned clearing the channel of U-boats expected to attack the landings. They said that they had many bad asdic contacts of large rocks and already sunken ships that might have been bottomed u-boats. Sometimes they'd depth charge long since sunken u-boats. The other thing was that the contacts were far from easy to make. The captain commented that he was lucky that his asdic operator was unusually qualified. Think of him being like "Jonesy" in Red October. Even then he was pretty hit and miss since a stationary sub bottomed looks a heck of alot like normal seabed detritus. However the SH3 engine leaves alot to be desired. Hopefully SH4 might improve this. However the Japanese weren't the British so the experience won't be the same. __________________

10-31-06, 12:49 AM	#13
_Seth_ Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: In Tromsoe, @Tirpitz' final resting place.. Posts: 3,277 Downloads: 94 Uploads: 0	Isnt it possible to make the seabed less flat? Its unnaturally flat all the time. Just some crevasses and underwater valleys....couldnt be that difficult. I think virtual sailor managed to do that...:hmm: __________________

10-29-06, 07:56 PM	#2
Warmonger Lieutenant Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 266 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	IIRC the sub will suffer continuous damage while bottoming so I would not rely on that. But I can't say it for sure. To be a sitting duck isn't a good choice anyway, stay on the move and try to evade and escape.

10-29-06, 08:16 PM	#3
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	You can bottom the boat in SH3. The trick is to lighly touch the bottom and the lowest possible speed. (like 0 to 0.5 to 1kts) If your slammed against the bottom, such as in rough weather, you'll take hull damage.

10-29-06, 08:32 PM	#4
zzsteven Chief Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 319 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Setting the boat on the bottom won't hide you from the DD's. zz

10-29-06, 08:39 PM	#5
SubConscious Frogman Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 309 Downloads: 102 Uploads: 0	I bottomed my IXB last night in about 90 meters of water. Some kind of random event appeared to be affecting my electric engines and I couldn't maintain depth very well, and as I was being pursued by two C-Class destroyers, I decided to let her settle slowly to the bottom. I touched lightly with engines at 1 knot and still suffered minor damage and one percent of hull integrity. In this circumstance, the tactic worked - they never found me. This was likely due to the fact that I "got out of Dodge" by moving at flank speed away from where they originally spotted me, figuring that while the destroyers were charging towards me at 34 knots that they wouldn't be able to detect me anyway. If the enemy has already detected you, bottoming out is suicide. They'll ping and depth charge you until you run out of air and are forced to surface. I've experienced this first hand. Also note that in the game, getting close to the bottom is considered the same as being close to land in terms of time compression, so unless you adjust this value (e.g., SH3 Commander allows this option), you'll be playing in real-time until you raise up your boat a few meters. Good luck and good hunting!

10-29-06, 10:09 PM	#6
Oldgamer48 Bosun Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Illinois, too far from the sea, but close to U-505! Posts: 61 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	Thanks for all the responses. It's good to know what the consequences of an action will be, before you do it! By the way, I like the atmosphere at subsim.com rather the petty politics at a certain Total War website that will go unnamed. You can ask a question and get it answered. People are helpful, and give good insight into what to expect. Good site!

10-30-06, 12:58 AM	#9
WhiteW0lf Loader Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Cyprus Posts: 82 Downloads: 42 Uploads: 0	I did this last night in my VIIC due to heavy flooding and damage, I was at 99 meters and just hit all stop saw that I had 1 meter under my keel and clicked dive to 1 to 2 more meters it touched down slightly with no damage, but your boat rocks back an forth.

10-30-06, 07:05 PM	#12
Steeltrap Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 818 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	I seem to recall Churchill commenting that "bottoming" is something more likely to occur in the Royal Navy..... "Traditions of the Navy? I'll give you traditions of the Navy - rum, buggery and the lash!" (something like that - haven't looked up the specific quote but it's a beaut!) :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

10-31-06, 06:13 AM	#14
Frenssen Sparky Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 155 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	With the NYGM mod you can slowly sink to the bottom at 0 knots as the boat will lose bouyance without speed. I have done this many times while waiting out storms and I suffer no damage.