Knuckle

Mercedes · 10-31-06, 08:26 PM

Two questions.

Was/is the practice of making a knuckle in the water with full stop to stop rudder used as an attempt to foil torpedo active in real life?

Is the real life effects of this modeled in DW if it does in fact have an effect on modern tordedos?

Regards,

Mercedes.

Mercedes · 11-01-06, 04:52 PM

61 views and not a murmur from the ranks.

ASWnut101 · 11-01-06, 05:31 PM

yeah, thats how it can be around here sometimes......

I remember back in the old days (last week), that I had to reply to my own topic to get some responses......makes you think, huh?:hmm:

I don't think it has an effect, as the FFG's engines are just gay and don't want to do things right. The only thing i can think of is cavitation, but you have to be going a certain speed for that, and thats death for a FFG, trying to go back and forth. if anything, just stream the nixie and run like heel.

EDIT: oops I forgot what I was talking about: No, you can't.

Henson · 11-01-06, 06:15 PM

ummmmmm

ASWnut101 · 11-01-06, 08:43 PM

yyyyyeeeeessss?

SeaQueen · 11-01-06, 09:09 PM

Unfortunately, you've edged upon a question where those with real life knowledge cannot help you. What one does to defend against a torpedo is one of the most closely guarded secrets in the Navy (understandably).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercedes

Two questions.

Was/is the practice of making a knuckle in the water with full stop to stop rudder used as an attempt to foil torpedo active in real life?

Is the real life effects of this modeled in DW if it does in fact have an effect on modern tordedos?

Regards,

Mercedes.

Ghost Dog · 11-01-06, 09:20 PM

Brings back memories of playing Red Storm Rising on my C-64 where a full rudder turn at 20+ knots would produce a knuckle enough to sometimes fool an old soviet fish as a last ditch. somewhat simple i know, but it was amazing what only 64 kb of RAM could do.

you could even set torpedoes to have either "Drive Through" or "Drive Around" logic for countermeasures.

man....those Sea Lances were fun.

zeropoint · 11-01-06, 10:39 PM

I don't think that knuckles are taken into account in DW. Like everything in DW, the fluid dynamics are based upon relatively simple simulations. You can hardly blame them though: Fluid effects as common as turbulence are still very poorly understood from a physical point of view. Asking a common PC to deal with realistic fluid dynamics is like asking a household sink to deal with Niagra falls.

Dr.Sid · 11-02-06, 03:46 AM

Well I guess it could fool wake-homers. I mean to stream nixie, go flank, make circle, go 5 kts away from torpedo course and slowly move away.
I'll try.

On the other hand, the best protection is just quess where the torpedo will go, and move away from that place. It works most times agains AI. AI leads a shot .. it aims ahaead of your current position. So it is best to make 180 degree turn and run away from the point you were going to. But sometimes even AI has bad fix. You can use buoys to check where the torpedo is going.

Humans can take this evasion into account. 2 torpedoes, or wireguiding can ruin this tactic. So only thing you have left is 'run as hell'.

Erling Smehl · 11-03-06, 11:55 AM

I would say it is more a function of defeating the tracking Units SONAR then a torpedo.

10-31-06, 08:26 PM	#1
Mercedes Watch Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 23 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Knuckle Two questions. Was/is the practice of making a knuckle in the water with full stop to stop rudder used as an attempt to foil torpedo active in real life? Is the real life effects of this modeled in DW if it does in fact have an effect on modern tordedos? Regards, Mercedes.

11-01-06, 05:31 PM	#3
ASWnut101 Admiral Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: USA Posts: 2,021 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	yeah, thats how it can be around here sometimes...... I remember back in the old days (last week), that I had to reply to my own topic to get some responses......makes you think, huh?:hmm: I don't think it has an effect, as the FFG's engines are just gay and don't want to do things right. The only thing i can think of is cavitation, but you have to be going a certain speed for that, and thats death for a FFG, trying to go back and forth. if anything, just stream the nixie and run like heel. EDIT: oops I forgot what I was talking about: No, you can't. __________________ Last edited by ASWnut101; 11-01-06 at 08:43 PM.

11-01-06, 08:43 PM	#5
ASWnut101 Admiral Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: USA Posts: 2,021 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	yyyyyeeeeessss? __________________

11-01-06, 04:52 PM	#2
Mercedes Watch Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 23 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	61 views and not a murmur from the ranks.

11-01-06, 06:15 PM	#4
Henson Planesman Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 185 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	ummmmmm

11-01-06, 09:20 PM	#7
Ghost Dog Planesman Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Olympus Mons, Mars Posts: 184 Downloads: 115 Uploads: 0	Brings back memories of playing Red Storm Rising on my C-64 where a full rudder turn at 20+ knots would produce a knuckle enough to sometimes fool an old soviet fish as a last ditch. somewhat simple i know, but it was amazing what only 64 kb of RAM could do. you could even set torpedoes to have either "Drive Through" or "Drive Around" logic for countermeasures. man....those Sea Lances were fun.

11-01-06, 10:39 PM	#8
zeropoint Watch Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 27 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I don't think that knuckles are taken into account in DW. Like everything in DW, the fluid dynamics are based upon relatively simple simulations. You can hardly blame them though: Fluid effects as common as turbulence are still very poorly understood from a physical point of view. Asking a common PC to deal with realistic fluid dynamics is like asking a household sink to deal with Niagra falls.

11-02-06, 03:46 AM	#9
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Well I guess it could fool wake-homers. I mean to stream nixie, go flank, make circle, go 5 kts away from torpedo course and slowly move away. I'll try. On the other hand, the best protection is just quess where the torpedo will go, and move away from that place. It works most times agains AI. AI leads a shot .. it aims ahaead of your current position. So it is best to make 180 degree turn and run away from the point you were going to. But sometimes even AI has bad fix. You can use buoys to check where the torpedo is going. Humans can take this evasion into account. 2 torpedoes, or wireguiding can ruin this tactic. So only thing you have left is 'run as hell'.

11-03-06, 11:55 AM	#10
Erling Smehl Nub Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I would say it is more a function of defeating the tracking Units SONAR then a torpedo.