Initial Comments on Attack Planning

XLjedi · 06-16-24, 12:56 PM

I completed my first mission in the first Type II and managed some success. Sank a couple ships I was supposed to sink and sank 1 Finnish ship that I was not supposed to sink.

The UI generally feels clunky still. I spend most of my time on the map and using the Tab menu to assign officers and a couple crew to each officer for efficiency buffs.

I am playing the unstable beta so I have full access to the TDC but the interface is disappointing. I also use the hardmode firing solution option, so I can control the inputs. I think I have it narrowed down now to a few things I find very annoying about the attack planning interface.

First and foremost, the data entry screen that I want to use is only available if you have a target locked on the attack or obs scope. It's the keyboard data-entry textboxes where I can type in AoB, Distance, and Target speed and then have the option to update the TDC. This is the input/interface I want to use all the time. However, this input is not something I can select to appear, rather it only seems to appear when I have a ship E-locked on the scope, which is just terrible and further compounded by not having access to the attack scope if not at periscope depth.

So, for the attack strategist who likes to work out battle plans on a map with whiz wheels, hydrophone TMA, drawing tools, and so forth, you will feel unnecessarily (and arbitrarily) constrained by a poor implementation of the UI that limits access to the tools you want to use, when you want to use them. The UI seems to assume everyone will be gathering firing solution data from a periscope or UZO view only. Regardless of how wonderfully the TDC has been implemented and modelled, the UI hamstrings your ability to use it efficiently outside of a forced E-lock on a visual target.

So.... all I need to do now is figure out how I can access:

1) the data entry boxes for target solution without having a target E-locked in a scope/UZO view
2) access the obs/attack scope at depths below periscope range so I can set the scope view to zero degrees for a predetermined attack solution
3) when using the scope or UZO, center the wire on zero (so no target E-locked) but still have access to the solution textboxes so I can enter Fast-90 attack parameters as if my target was at bearing 0° with 90°P/S AoB, and travelling at 9kts. With the info entered in, I could then lock the scope to the firing solution and as I pan left/right to the ship, the AoB would be calculated automatically for me.

The lack of having this capability is what I find that is most often taking me out of the game. I find myself irritated by the forced UI and assumed methodology for determining a firing solution.

XLjedi · 06-16-24, 07:21 PM

In my next mission, I was able to setup a Fast-90 attack. I have to correct one item from my previous post. I was indeed able to access the attack scope at 30m depth to make sure it was zeroed out.

The only way I can make this work is to assign one officer to the TDC dials, and one to the attack scope. I have to zero the scope, then switch to TDC and enter AoB, target speed, and distance via the dials. Accuracy here to the tenths is a little annoying, but not too bad. I would prefer the value the dial is showing was editable if I clicked into it and just entered 90.

It's annoying still and clunky feeling, but I may be able to get comfortable with it in time. I do like how you can hear the TDC clicking out the solution as you pan the scope.

The rest of the gameplay is amazing so far. All the details related to missions and options for boarding and interacting with wreckage are wonderful and gives a sense of immersion that is beyond anything in the SH3/4 missions.

GoldenRivet · 06-17-24, 03:37 PM

It took me a week or two to really get cozy with the interface, which does still need some work.

Uboat is a *huge* departure from tradition for those of us who were really accustomed to being the only living souls on our boats - sharing it with a bunch of animatronic beings that just stood there and paroted our orders. It was easy in SHIII for example to alternate from the scope to the attack map and enter TDC parameters etc super quickly and efficiently. Do all the plotting, the math, run the numbers yadda yadda. However, Uboat isnt that game, its a sandbox survival / crew management exercise. The point of it is that while you *can* run the sub solo, its clunky to try that out... your arent necessarily meant to, i believe it is more intended to be like we've seen in das boot and read in books about how attacks were really carried out. (for 100% realism for example, set targeting to intermediate, and let your 1WO man the UZO and plot the attack for you on the surface, while you handle the submerged shots) - generally speaking the "shooter" gathered the target data and communicated that to somone who had the TDC manned and *that* person would input the solution information on the fly.

as they say the crew is the rifle, the captain is the trigger, and thats really the approach Uboat is aiming for.

Will the final release have a more "friendly" approach to the players who want to do all the plotting, figuring, line drawing, information gathering etc? probably

but in the meantime, folks looking for that need to be aware that Uboat isnt that game at the present time.

for now... i would suggest anyone looking to play Uboat needs to see Wolfpack345's videos on youtube (is he here by the way??) its a pretty honest assesment as to how the player needs to be driving this boat. figuratively, and literally

XLjedi · 06-17-24, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

It took me a week or two to really get cozy with the interface, which does still need some work.

Uboat is a *huge* departure from tradition for those of us who were really accustomed to being the only living souls on our boats - sharing it with a bunch of animatronic beings that just stood there and paroted our orders. It was easy in SHIII for example to alternate from the scope to the attack map and enter TDC parameters etc super quickly and efficiently. Do all the plotting, the math, run the numbers yadda yadda. However, Uboat isnt that game, its a sandbox survival / crew management exercise. The point of it is that while you *can* run the sub solo, its clunky to try that out... your arent necessarily meant to, i believe it is more intended to be like we've seen in das boot and read in books about how attacks were really carried out. (for 100% realism for example, set targeting to intermediate, and let your 1WO man the UZO and plot the attack for you on the surface, while you handle the submerged shots) - generally speaking the "shooter" gathered the target data and communicated that to somone who had the TDC manned and *that* person would input the solution information on the fly.

as they say the crew is the rifle, the captain is the trigger, and thats really the approach Uboat is aiming for.

Will the final release have a more "friendly" approach to the players who want to do all the plotting, figuring, line drawing, information gathering etc? probably

but in the meantime, folks looking for that need to be aware that Uboat isnt that game at the present time.

for now... i would suggest anyone looking to play Uboat needs to see Wolfpack345's videos on youtube (is he here by the way??) its a pretty honest assesment as to how the player needs to be driving this boat. figuratively, and literally

Please, stop telling me Uboat "isn't that game" I'm tired of hearing it.

It actually IS that game, it's just a matter of unlocking the UI puzzle. I will get there and then write a guide so others can do the same. ...but from what I have seen so far, I suspect what I want is most certainly doable and can be done efficiently. The biggest problem I've had so far seems to be people just telling me Uboat and SH3 are not comparable because they don't really understand the new TDC interface that well, or how it works.

BTW, Wolpack345 doesn't seem to understand why the TDC is changing his inputs and he just overrides them (repeatedly) to a Fast-90 setting. I'm not sure I'd recommend his videos to anyone who wants to actually figure out what the TDC is doing in conjunction with the scope aiming wire.

GoldenRivet · 06-17-24, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLjedi

Please, stop telling me Uboat "isn't that game" I'm tired of hearing it.

Except that literally it isnt that game.

The present GUI and the current state of the TDC do not 100% support the highly technical whiz wheel style of play we are used to with SHIII - you can play it that way... it will just be as you described "clunky" and i agree completely

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLjedi

The biggest problem I've had so far seems to be people just telling me Uboat and SH3 are not comparable because they don't really understand the new TDC interface that well, or how it works.

SH3 and Uboat are two wings of the same bird. i wouldnt go so far as to say they are "not comparable". I often feel like Uboat is almost an extension of SH3 in many ways, but the whole crew management / 3rd person style of play takes a ton of getting used to

The TDC interface works just fine whenever i select it and enter the parameters, i have had a lot of success with the shots. But i agree with your assessment that many are not using it propely - as this is evidenced in many topics on the steam discussions. i suspect when Uboat moves out of testing this will be something that is ironed out. but i dont know that difinitively

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLjedi

BTW, Wolpack345 doesn't seem to understand why the TDC is changing his inputs and he just overrides them (repeatedly) to a Fast-90 setting.

a known issue the devs are aware of...

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLjedi

I'm not sure I'd recommend his videos to anyone who wants to actually figure out what the TDC is doing in conjunction with the scope aiming wire.

i would certanly NOT recommend his videos to anyone who wants to figure out the TDC, however, i would recommend his videos to someone who wants to have......

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

- a pretty honest assesment as to how the player needs to be driving this boat. figuratively, and literally

Wolfpack345's videos are - as i pointed out - an honest representation of the current gamestate. If you're wanting to jump feet first into playing it, and want to know what you're getting into, have a look at his videos. they are by no means a tutorial, but they are very representative of the average player experience, be it good, bad, or ugly - he doesnt hide anything from us.

hombre al agua · 06-18-24, 04:57 AM

I have played 300 hours with the real navigation mod and a 20 more mods to add simulation realism and i dont think silent hunter franquise has the superior sim gameplay. They are very similar in that aspect if you play that way.

How many people plays silent hunter with no contacts at all in the map, also your boat not included in the map?

Now with the new torpedo computer in uboat that will be better that any other tdc.. while waiting for the release of the game and a future of dlcs and current development... both sim and rpg aspects of the game could get better that any other game of the genre because uboat has things that no game of the genre has, and is getting everyday closer or equal to the simulation level of the silent hunter franquise.

06-16-24, 12:56 PM	#1
XLjedi Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Palm Beach, Florida Posts: 1,241 Downloads: 53 Uploads: 8	Initial Comments on Attack Planning I completed my first mission in the first Type II and managed some success. Sank a couple ships I was supposed to sink and sank 1 Finnish ship that I was not supposed to sink. The UI generally feels clunky still. I spend most of my time on the map and using the Tab menu to assign officers and a couple crew to each officer for efficiency buffs. I am playing the unstable beta so I have full access to the TDC but the interface is disappointing. I also use the hardmode firing solution option, so I can control the inputs. I think I have it narrowed down now to a few things I find very annoying about the attack planning interface. First and foremost, the data entry screen that I want to use is only available if you have a target locked on the attack or obs scope. It's the keyboard data-entry textboxes where I can type in AoB, Distance, and Target speed and then have the option to update the TDC. This is the input/interface I want to use all the time. However, this input is not something I can select to appear, rather it only seems to appear when I have a ship E-locked on the scope, which is just terrible and further compounded by not having access to the attack scope if not at periscope depth. So, for the attack strategist who likes to work out battle plans on a map with whiz wheels, hydrophone TMA, drawing tools, and so forth, you will feel unnecessarily (and arbitrarily) constrained by a poor implementation of the UI that limits access to the tools you want to use, when you want to use them. The UI seems to assume everyone will be gathering firing solution data from a periscope or UZO view only. Regardless of how wonderfully the TDC has been implemented and modelled, the UI hamstrings your ability to use it efficiently outside of a forced E-lock on a visual target. So.... all I need to do now is figure out how I can access: 1) the data entry boxes for target solution without having a target E-locked in a scope/UZO view 2) access the obs/attack scope at depths below periscope range so I can set the scope view to zero degrees for a predetermined attack solution 3) when using the scope or UZO, center the wire on zero (so no target E-locked) but still have access to the solution textboxes so I can enter Fast-90 attack parameters as if my target was at bearing 0° with 90°P/S AoB, and travelling at 9kts. With the info entered in, I could then lock the scope to the firing solution and as I pan left/right to the ship, the AoB would be calculated automatically for me. The lack of having this capability is what I find that is most often taking me out of the game. I find myself irritated by the forced UI and assumed methodology for determining a firing solution. __________________

06-16-24, 07:21 PM	#2
XLjedi Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Palm Beach, Florida Posts: 1,241 Downloads: 53 Uploads: 8	In my next mission, I was able to setup a Fast-90 attack. I have to correct one item from my previous post. I was indeed able to access the attack scope at 30m depth to make sure it was zeroed out. The only way I can make this work is to assign one officer to the TDC dials, and one to the attack scope. I have to zero the scope, then switch to TDC and enter AoB, target speed, and distance via the dials. Accuracy here to the tenths is a little annoying, but not too bad. I would prefer the value the dial is showing was editable if I clicked into it and just entered 90. It's annoying still and clunky feeling, but I may be able to get comfortable with it in time. I do like how you can hear the TDC clicking out the solution as you pan the scope. The rest of the gameplay is amazing so far. All the details related to missions and options for boarding and interacting with wreckage are wonderful and gives a sense of immersion that is beyond anything in the SH3/4 missions. __________________

06-17-24, 03:37 PM	#3
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,724 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	It took me a week or two to really get cozy with the interface, which does still need some work. Uboat is a huge departure from tradition for those of us who were really accustomed to being the only living souls on our boats - sharing it with a bunch of animatronic beings that just stood there and paroted our orders. It was easy in SHIII for example to alternate from the scope to the attack map and enter TDC parameters etc super quickly and efficiently. Do all the plotting, the math, run the numbers yadda yadda. However, Uboat isnt that game, its a sandbox survival / crew management exercise. The point of it is that while you can run the sub solo, its clunky to try that out... your arent necessarily meant to, i believe it is more intended to be like we've seen in das boot and read in books about how attacks were really carried out. (for 100% realism for example, set targeting to intermediate, and let your 1WO man the UZO and plot the attack for you on the surface, while you handle the submerged shots) - generally speaking the "shooter" gathered the target data and communicated that to somone who had the TDC manned and that person would input the solution information on the fly. as they say the crew is the rifle, the captain is the trigger, and thats really the approach Uboat is aiming for. Will the final release have a more "friendly" approach to the players who want to do all the plotting, figuring, line drawing, information gathering etc? probably but in the meantime, folks looking for that need to be aware that Uboat isnt that game at the present time. for now... i would suggest anyone looking to play Uboat needs to see Wolfpack345's videos on youtube (is he here by the way??) its a pretty honest assesment as to how the player needs to be driving this boat. figuratively, and literally __________________

06-18-24, 04:57 AM	#6
hombre al agua Watch Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 25 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	I have played 300 hours with the real navigation mod and a 20 more mods to add simulation realism and i dont think silent hunter franquise has the superior sim gameplay. They are very similar in that aspect if you play that way. How many people plays silent hunter with no contacts at all in the map, also your boat not included in the map? Now with the new torpedo computer in uboat that will be better that any other tdc.. while waiting for the release of the game and a future of dlcs and current development... both sim and rpg aspects of the game could get better that any other game of the genre because uboat has things that no game of the genre has, and is getting everyday closer or equal to the simulation level of the silent hunter franquise.