Type VII.....

cappy70 · 02-16-10, 03:05 PM

"Best of the Best",,,just quoting 'Top Ten' subs on Military channel today.

Sailor Steve · 02-16-10, 03:15 PM

Yep. That's why they lost so many of them.

V.C. Sniper · 02-16-10, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Yep. That's why they lost so many of them.

frau kaleun · 02-16-10, 04:30 PM

But there were more of them to start with. Because they were so awesome.

YOU WILL PRY MY LOVE OF THE VIIC FROM MY COLD DEAD... er... HEART!

I think they specified the VIIC in the show he's referring to. IIRC what put it over the top was its (in their opinion) superb combination of so many of the things they considered when doing the rankings (maneuverability, durability, etc.) and most especially what they referred to as the "fear factor."

Meaning that, in its heyday during the early years of the BoA, it inspired more fear in more people (justifiably or otherwise) than any other class of sub before or since. And they were talking not just about the military and merchant seamen but the civilian population as well.

(But of course if they're going to do a show like that for popular consumption you also have to consider the fact that when you say "submarine" the image that pops into the head of the average person is mostly likely a u-boat and probably a VIIC.)

SteamWake · 02-16-10, 04:38 PM

To quote Mr. Churchill 'Our greatest fear'

Jimbuna · 02-16-10, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

To quote Mr. Churchill 'Our greatest fear'

In the only theatre of war that existed from the day war was declared until the day of the surrender announcement (war with Germany).

bigboywooly · 02-16-10, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

In the only theatre of war that existed from the day war was declared until the day of the surrender announcement (war with Germany).

Thought ended in 43

Oh wait

Sailor Steve · 02-16-10, 05:00 PM

I have nothing against loving the Type VII. I love 'em myself. But quoting a TV show to support a claim? Those shows have a long history (pardon the pun) of having droves of experts give them nothing but bad ratings.

Back when I was a regular poster on the old Warships1 (now Navweaps) boards it was a game everybody played to watch a show on the History channel and see who could spot the most 'blow-its' for each show. They never got it right.

So if a TV show telling you that anything was "The Best Of The Best" is your criterion for greatness, you lose before you're even out the gate.

frau kaleun · 02-16-10, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I have nothing against loving the Type VII. I love 'em myself. But quoting a TV show to support a claim?

Oh, I don't think the show "proved" in any way that this sub is/was "better" than that sub. I don't think it's possible to do that to everybody's satisfaction, because first of all you have to define "better" and even if that impossible task is managed you still end up comparing subs that were designed and built and used decades apart, and not necessarily for the same primary purpose.

So when I watched that show and saw the VIIC end up in the top slot there was a part of me that went "okay well I see what their criteria are, so maybe they've got a point" and another part of me that went "well of course it's #1 because it's the most recognizable sub in the popular consciousness."

And then of course another part of me went "YES YES YES I KNEW IT WOOHOO *fist pump*

!!!!!11!!!!!1111!"

MGR1 · 02-16-10, 05:12 PM

The Type VII was succesful purely because the Germans standardised on that class and built a lot of them.

If you build a lot of something, then the law of averages comes in to play.

As the vast majority of the U-Boatwaffe was equipped with the VII, then most of the tonnage was sunk by crews with that type of boat.

Similarly, I wouldn't be surprised that the vast majority of Japanese shipping was sunk by crews serving in a Gato.

My 2p.

Mike.

FIREWALL · 02-16-10, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

Thought ended in 43

Oh wait

Yeah ! Ubisofts rewrite and version of history.

frau kaleun · 02-16-10, 05:16 PM

Quote:

As the vast majority of the U-Boatwaffe was equipped with the VII, then most of the tonnage was sunk by crews with that type of boat.

Similarly, I wouldn't be surprised that the vast majority of Japanese shipping was sunk by crews serving in a Gato.

Yes but my VIIC has Jürgen Prochnow in it.

ReFaN · 02-16-10, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIREWALL

Yeah ! Ubisofts rewrite and version of history.

Myself i think the U boat war ended in 1943, i wouldnt want to play a game where i would have a 90% chance of dying traversing the Bay of Biscay, and a another 10% dying in the middle of the atlantic because of aircraft.

oscar19681 · 02-16-10, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

Yes but my VIIC has Jürgen Prochnow in it.

Or even better my type VIIC has ME in it!

frau kaleun · 02-16-10, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oscar19681

Or even better my type VIIC has ME in it!

Or better yet, me and Jürgen Prochnow.

I'm not saying I'd just give him the white cap entirely... but I might let him wear it once in a while.

Plus, when appropriate, he can do all my cursing in German for me. He's so much better at it.

02-16-10, 03:15 PM	#2
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Yep. That's why they lost so many of them. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

02-16-10, 04:38 PM	#5
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	To quote Mr. Churchill 'Our greatest fear' __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

02-16-10, 05:00 PM	#8
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I have nothing against loving the Type VII. I love 'em myself. But quoting a TV show to support a claim? Those shows have a long history (pardon the pun) of having droves of experts give them nothing but bad ratings. Back when I was a regular poster on the old Warships1 (now Navweaps) boards it was a game everybody played to watch a show on the History channel and see who could spot the most 'blow-its' for each show. They never got it right. So if a TV show telling you that anything was "The Best Of The Best" is your criterion for greatness, you lose before you're even out the gate. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

02-16-10, 05:12 PM	#10
MGR1 Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Aberdeen, Scotland, United Kingdom Posts: 962 Downloads: 252 Uploads: 0	The Type VII was succesful purely because the Germans standardised on that class and built a lot of them. If you build a lot of something, then the law of averages comes in to play. As the vast majority of the U-Boatwaffe was equipped with the VII, then most of the tonnage was sunk by crews with that type of boat. Similarly, I wouldn't be surprised that the vast majority of Japanese shipping was sunk by crews serving in a Gato. My 2p. Mike. __________________ "I am the battleship Jean Bart. This name originates from a certain 'respected' privateer... Yes? You want to know what privateers are? Hmph, they are pirates that rob openly under the banner of their country." Jean Bart from the mobile game Azur Lane.

02-16-10, 03:05 PM	#1
cappy70 Ensign Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: USA/Florida/Sweden Posts: 234 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Type VII..... "Best of the Best",,,just quoting 'Top Ten' subs on Military channel today. __________________ Specs Windows 10 64 bit Pro Asus Z - 97A Intel I7-4790K 4 Ghz 16 Gig Trident Claw DDR 3 2 x 760 GTX 2048 mem in SLI. WD 1T Hd Ultra/WD Black 640 Corsair 850W PSU

02-16-10, 04:30 PM	#4
frau kaleun Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Skyri--oh who are we kidding, I'm probably at Lowe's. Again. Posts: 12,706 Downloads: 168 Uploads: 0	But there were more of them to start with. Because they were so awesome. YOU WILL PRY MY LOVE OF THE VIIC FROM MY COLD DEAD... er... HEART! I think they specified the VIIC in the show he's referring to. IIRC what put it over the top was its (in their opinion) superb combination of so many of the things they considered when doing the rankings (maneuverability, durability, etc.) and most especially what they referred to as the "fear factor." Meaning that, in its heyday during the early years of the BoA, it inspired more fear in more people (justifiably or otherwise) than any other class of sub before or since. And they were talking not just about the military and merchant seamen but the civilian population as well. (But of course if they're going to do a show like that for popular consumption you also have to consider the fact that when you say "submarine" the image that pops into the head of the average person is mostly likely a u-boat and probably a VIIC.)