SSBN's in Dangerous Waters

[Captain Norman]

I was always wonderin if Sonalyst would ever add a playable SSBN to either Dangerous Waters or even a new sub sim. I think it would be cool to play as one, being in control of all those missiles. And with this new naval news about non-nuclear missiles for SSBNs, it could work with modern times, but a nuclear SSBN would be neat.
Id definately like to see an Ohio and a Typhoon. I could relive my Hunt for Red October fantasies.

[LoBlo]

unfortunately only the 6 current platforms are available to play. (LA, Akula, Kilo, FFG, P3 and MH60) with no current plans to expand toward new platforms in the near future. The creation of new platforms by the mod community has been refused as well.

[Wildcat]

You certainly can do that. Use SCX with sub command. You can play all kinds of boomers in sub command and SCU. There will be no such mod like SCX/SCU for dangerous waters however, sonalysts does not want that.

[LoBlo]

Hm... I'm always hearing about the amazement which is SCX. You can't tell me that SCX achieve actual missile silo launches vis the Ohio VLS did it?...

Gee, I'm thinking about going out and buying an old copy of SC to see what all the SCX mystique is about... Heck, if all that work went into the original SCX, I wouldn't want to start from scratch and do it all over again either..

[Wildcat]

Well I don't think that you can launch missiles from the subs in SCX, just torpedoes. There's not much point in launching nuclear missiles, the effects aren't modelled and it would probably break the game engine if the speeds of the missiles got up to 20,000mph or so.

It's better left to the mission designer to script 'fake' missile launches, i.e. a trigger that states you've fired your missiles if you break through ice at a certain time and location.

[LuftWolf]

Hehe...

Oh yeah, we can fake it.

I could definately make some kind of sublaunched ballistic missile with a nuclear warhead. Amizaur recently showed that the DW damage model can take a 30000kt blast, fired from a 65-76 torpedo. He said it killed everything within 50nm.

I think the maxalt allowed by the sim is 100000m.

The problem is... DW is a TACTICAL simulator. We could easily put in small nuclear Stallions and Squals... but then how would that make it a better sim? Perhaps we could do a nuclear TLAM, but at the end of the day, that would only be a gee-whiz kind of thing. It would make a big boom, things would turn grey, targets would die.

Just a bit bigger version of what already happens with a TLAM.

Cheers,
David

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by Captain Norman

And with this new naval news about non-nuclear missiles for SSBNs, it could work with modern times

The tactical Tridents will probably be pretty cool if they make it past Congress, but I suspect that in all likelihood, they'll probably turn out to be used in practice as extra long ranged Tomahawks than as the sort of "Osama is hanging out in the park, he'll be there for the next hour, go get 'em" kind of things they're advertising them as.

[LoBlo]

Originally Posted by SeaQueen

The tactical Tridents will probably be pretty cool if they make it past Congress, but I suspect that in all likelihood, they'll probably turn out to be used in practice as extra long ranged Tomahawks than as the sort of "Osama is hanging out in the park, he'll be there for the next hour, go get 'em" kind of things they're advertising them as.

I remember reading that one of the obstacles for convientional ballistic missiles was that it looked a lot like nuclear missile launches from orbital satellite perspective... so as the missiles fly countries all over the world would be officially freaking out not knowing whether its a nuke flying or not...not a good thing. That is, of course, unless the navy were to give all other countries an advanced warning before it fired, but that's impractical and defeats the "quick strike" mentality... better to not open up that can of worms IMHO.

If quick strike is what's desired, then the RATTLERS looks pretty interesting... and appears to be working nicely, just needs to be adapted to launch from specific platforms...
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/sto...2009026&page=1
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ns/rattlrs.htm
Hystrike is along those lines as well
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...s/hystrike.htm

On a side note... :hmm: ...ge its really, really tempting to mod these missiles into the game as next generation strike missiles. Maybe a substitute for the TLAM in the LA and SW...

[LuftWolf]

It kind of looks like a Shipwreck.

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by LoBlo

I remember reading that one of the obstacles for convientional ballistic missiles was that it looked a lot like nuclear missile launches from orbital satellite perspective... so as the missiles fly countries all over the world would be officially freaking out not knowing whether its a nuke flying or not...not a good thing. That is, of course, unless the navy were to give all other countries an advanced warning before it fired, but that's impractical and defeats the "quick strike" mentality... better to not open up that can of worms IMHO.

True, that's possible. Hence I suspect that if they actually did come into service, they'd be used more like extra long ranged Tomahawk cruise missiles. A lot of this sort of "quick strike" discussion comes from an event that occured in the 90s, when Osama Bin Ladin's exact location was known for a short period of time. Pres. Clinton ordered a submarine to launch a TLAM strike in retaliation for the bombings of American embassies. If he'd only stayed where he was a little bit longer they'd have got him, but by the time the missiles got there, he was gone. People at the Pentagon immediately said, "We need a faster missile!" Who knows how often these kinds of opportunities pop up, though?

If quick strike is what's desired, then the RATTLERS looks pretty interesting... and appears to be working nicely, just needs to be adapted to launch from specific platforms...

It's still just a prototype. They've still got lots of bugs to work out before putting it into service. Same with the Hystrike. That's not a real weapon yet either. It's always interesting to see how so many of these future systems fare. Anyone remember the Sealance? They only built 3 Seawolf class submarines. The LCS they're building now is a far cry from the original concept of the LCS. Who knows how that will go? The DD(X) is probably going to happen. Who knows about the CG(X) and CV(X)? So many of these things depend on money. It's doubly the case when Congress seems intent on bankrupting the nation with a combination of irresponsible spending and the irrational belief that the optimal tax rate is 0.

History is filled with weapons projects that for whatever reason went *poof*. Who knows what they'll be thinking about in 10 years?

I think a "Future Systems" database might be fun. It'd be very much in the same genre as the ADB for Harpoon. The thing is, right now is sort of a strange time to be building that sort of thing because a lot of "future systems" are right around the corner. To continue with the Harpoon analogy, the ADB frequently represents systems that also ought to be in the DB2000 (which cover up to 2020). The thing is, the two are sometimes inconsistent with each other.

I like to think of it as ADB is "what might have been," and DB2000 is "what actually came about." None the less, sometimes I think it creates strange impressions of things.

[FERdeBOER]

Correct me if I'm wrong (almost sure I am) but I've read once that the boomers can do two types of launch:
-The "big", launching from thousands of miles away of the objetive, with the missiles climbing high on the atmosphere and so...
- "Short range launch", I don't remember exactly the distance, but I believe 100 nm aprox from the objetive. That kind of launch will make the counterdetection very hard and the reaction time minimum. And that's why there's a pact about no boomers closer than 100 (or was 500?:hmm: ) miles from other country.
Of course, this second launching method is a LOT dangerous for the boomer but, if it is succesfull...

If I'm on a mistake, forget it; if I'm correct, then it will be possible to use SSBNs to launch missiles from a great distance without being considered nuclear... or not?... (we need a devil similie)

[DivingWind]

Anyway boomer era is over, we dont need it in the game!

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by FERdeBOER

If I'm on a mistake, forget it; if I'm correct, then it will be possible to use SSBNs to launch missiles from a great distance without being considered nuclear... or not?... (we need a devil similie)

I think what you're thinking about is how for a time the Pentagon worried that the Soviet could shoot their ballistic missiles on depressed elevation and decrease the warning time for Armegeddon. That turned out not to be true.