Bilge

[captcav]

Hey guys, i posted this is the mods section, but just wanted to get your thoughts about the inclusion of working bilges? It's would be such a small feature of the game, but i think personally it add just that little bit more realism to it. Big sea's bilges working over-time to expend all the excess water, the sub guru's probably wouldnt be interested in it, but from on the surface point of view, i'd love to see it!

[LuftWolf]

Strictly, from a technical standpoint, that's out of the hands of us modders.

Also, since this is a tactical naval warfare simulation, that is out of the scope of the sim.

If SCS was going to include stuff like that, there's all kinds of stuff that would have to come in as well... hmm, I'm thinking about the management controls for the naval reactors. Yikes, imagine having to control the reactor and steam turbine transmission directly every time you change speed?

So, the short answer, cap, is that it's not likely to happen. Sorry.

Cheers,
David

[Bellman]

Hi Cap.
I'm irresistably attracted by a topic called ''Bilge'' (ie rubbish)

Now expelling detris from the Bilges was claimed to be a ruse emplyed by pinned WW2 sub captains
in the hope of fooling the surf who had depth-charged 'em. that he'd made a kill.

Perhaps others may confirm whether this is true - I supect not because it would be very tempting
to drop another couple of hedgehogs - just to make sure. Confirms to the surf he's got you cold ?

[LuftWolf]

Now expelling detris from the Bilges was claimed to be a ruse emplyed by pinned WW2 sub captains
in the hope of fooling the surf who had depth-charged 'em. that he'd made a kill.

This tactic worked great in Silent Service.

I was also a big fan of surfacing within visual range of destroyers, and then launching torpedos down their throat as they closed the distance. I know that's gamey, but I was like 10 years old, so I figured the simulation was a perfect representation of reality and I didn't even know the meaning of "gamey."

Ah those were the days...

[Bellman]

Getting back to bilges Timmyg00 has some interesting sub interior photos taken on his recent trip.
(Thread linked here) Well worth a look.

The equipment and gear is fascinating to see. There are some shots of the 'head' but its amusing to read
the WC 'operating proceedures' There are about ten operations - turn X knob fully right, drop lever Z,etc...etc..............
I guess you cant just rush things !!

For guys charged with beans and beer - thats a heck of a challenge.

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

This tactic worked great in Silent Service.

I was also a big fan of surfacing within visual range of destroyers, and then launching torpedos down their throat as they closed the distance. I know that's gamey, but I was like 10 years old, so I figured the simulation was a perfect representation of reality and I didn't even know the meaning of "gamey."

Ah those were the days...

I never got it to work once! I always had to fight those damn boats, evasion never worked...

[Bellman]

OT - Bilge.

Anyone know where the term the 'head' came from ?

No vulgarity please - but just curious as Google seems uncooperative.

I know I'm going to kick myself but my imagination only takes me as far as a head of water, an anatomical description,
or the need to duck down upon entering a confined compartrment.

[Bellman]

OT - Bilge.

A non-too serious question:-
Considering that the space and possibly the weight of foodstuffs and drink on a nuke equates to the
same of the reactor etc. Presumably the waste material (ie soil) is discharged during the voyage or is it
chemicaly processed and stored until return to port ? If the former then one assumes that as the voyage
proceeds the sub becomes lighter providing more options for manouverability.So a high fibre intake processed
by a battery of animal tracts enhances the performance of 21st century 'hangs and dives' ?

I suspect that this ' discharge' concept, might have applied in WW2, but today special chemical or
biological bouy sensors could make this a dangerous technique.

[Bill Nichols]

Originally Posted by Bellman

OT - Bilge.

Anyone know where the term the 'head' came from ?

No vulgarity please - but just curious as Google seems uncooperative.

Yes, I know. On sailing ships in the age of sail, the 'facilties' for the crew were located on a platform forward of the bow (where the bowsprit mast joins the hull), i.e., at the 'head' of the ship. The waste would drop directly into the sea.

See this:

http://www.stvincent.ac.uk/Heritage/...ory/heads.html

[Bellman]

Thanks Bill.

''Toilets - no more than a seat with a hole above the waves - were to be found right up in the bow (or head) of the ship''

Got to admit I toured Victory a couple of times and missed them.

Can you throw any light on the storage v discharge question ?

[Bill Nichols]

Originally Posted by Bellman

OT - Bilge.

A non-too serious question:-
Considering that the space and possibly the weight of foodstuffs and drink on a nuke equates to the
same of the reactor etc. Presumably the waste material (ie soil) is discharged during the voyage or is it
chemicaly processed and stored until return to port ? If the former then one assumes that as the voyage
proceeds the sub becomes lighter providing more options for manouverability.So a high fibre intake processed
by a battery of animal tracts enhances the performance of 21st century 'hangs and dives' ?

I suspect that this ' discharge' concept, might have applied in WW2, but today special chemical or
biological bouy sensors could make this a dangerous technique.

Sorry, but your logic is flawed.

As food is eaten, digested and excreted onboard a sub, it eventually makes its way to special 'sanitary tanks'. The sanitary tanks are periodically emptied by pumping the waste to sea (the sanitary pump is a bitch to clean if it becomes clogged!). Whenever the sanitary tanks are emptied, the sub does indeed become lighter. However, this means the sub will become more buoyant, which is a no-no.

One of the Diving Officer's most important jobs is to keep the sub in 'neutral trim'. Thus, whenever a sanitary tank is emptied, the Diving Officer compensates by adding an equivalant amount of seawater into the boat's trim tanks. Thus, the sub's total weight remains the same -- there are no 'performance benefits' from a high-fiber diet! :|\

[Bellman]

Thanks again Bill.

There is no gain as in achieving the 'steady state' water is taken on to maintain trim - as this does not directly
replace the soil and is held in special ballast tanks replacing a volume of air already present. Hence no gain. OK.

For some reason I imagined that a disposable should/would impact on performance.
But hey weapons are disposable so the same principles hold good.

Now if the soil was held in 'drop tanks' an EB would'nt be necessary - drop and soar eh ?
Save your air for a better day !

[Bellman]

Just had a thought possibly that the Mods. may consider.

The General Section is a catch-all for some pretty weird and wild stuff.

Now I dont suggest that "Bilge'' as a topic has attracted any superior debates and the topics (sorry)
have been addressing issues we would rather forget.

But it has a certain rustic appeal as a Heading a home within DW where any topics specificaly related
to naval matters can be discussed.

Forgive me - I am on topic here but 'General' attracts a lot of cr*p. We need a harbour a home for wayward seafarers
where we can yarn about our job.
I try to convice my wife that thats what it is

[Fandango]

Originally Posted by Bellman

Presumably the waste material (ie soil) is discharged during the voyage or is it
chemicaly processed and stored until return to port ?

The MARPOL (Marine Pollution) Convention has strict prescriptions related to release of wastes and any kind of material/substance that may lead to marine pollution. But this Convention does not apply to naval vessel...

[Bellman]

I was surprised when Bill confirmed that waste is diposed of in the 'old fashioned' way.
I really thought that in the 21 st century the Seawolf for example would chemicaly convert the waste.
Appart from bio considerations there is a possible risk of detection element here. My guess is that it is treated in ways that
render its traces in the ocean undetectable.
Still think for security, operational flexibility and bio reasons that a kind of 'drop tank' system would be effective.

Off topic - Pity airliners cant find a safer way to deal with frozen urine - many cases of shattered roofs - not very nice