New MBTs

[Skybird]

Both the US and Germany have seen the demonstration of possible new MBTs this year. Rheinmetall introduced its new Panther KF-51, General Dynamics the Abrams-X.

I wonder, and reportedly so does the US defence ministry as well and probably also the German ministry: what sense makes it to invest heavily in new MBTs if the Ukraine war demonstrates how easily and fast tanks are being disabled and killed quickly and in discouraging quantities?

[Jimbuna]

^ Fair point

[Buddahaid]

The hybrid power plant. DOD is looking to reduce the dependence on fossil fuels as a national security issue.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

The hybrid power plant. DOD is looking to reduce the dependence on fossil fuels as a national security issue.

Yes, to me that is the prime argument for the Abrams X. Fuel reduction 50%. Wowh. The current Abrams are known jetfuel guzzlers.



But the Abrams-X also gets flak for the AI thing.

Still the question is: are MBT weapons of a past whose needs are no more valid in the face of these new weapon technologies today: ATGMs, drones, kamokaze drones, soon swarm AI weapons, autonomous AI etc. ?

Ask the Russians if they are happy with how their tanks perform. They have lost over 2500 MBTs so far. Plus over 5000 IFVs and APCs. The Ukrainians collect them like Obelix collects Roman helmets.

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Yes, to me that is the prime argument for the Abrams X. Fuel reduction 50%. Wowh. The current Abrams are known jetfuel guzzlers.



But the Abrams-X also gets flak for the AI thing.

Still the question is: are MBT weapons of a past whose needs are no more valid in the face of these new weapon technologies today: ATGMs, drones, kamokaze drones, soon swarm AI weapons, autonomous AI etc. ?

Ask the Russians if they are happy with how their tanks perform. They have lost over 2500 MBTs so far. Plus over 5000 IFVs and APCs. The Ukrainians collect them like Obelix collects Roman helmets.

The Russian army losing MBTs is mainly because of design errors, and they like the USSR so much they leap backwards.

[Rockstar]

I’ve said it before, even a T-72 is a fearsome weapon if manned by a well trained crew coupled with tactics, infantry, scouts, and air support. But using them like we’ve seen in Ukraine. The lone tank, even a Leopard or Abrams, is a sitting duck. Nothing has changed for the tank since the Brits “Big Willie” made its debut at the First Battle of the Somme in 1916. The tank is meant to restore maneuver to the battlefield, punch holes in defense and unleash the cavalry. I don’t see much of that going on in Ukraine. Instead video after video shows lone tanks zipping down roads, or overlooking hill tops, sitting in tree lines at a crossroad, or as a dug in gun emplacement. Only to be easily whacked by a Javelin or drone bombs.

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I’ve said it before, even a T-72 is a fearsome weapon if manned by a well trained crew coupled with tactics, infantry, scouts, and air support. But using them like we’ve seen in Ukraine. The lone tank, even a Leopard or Abrams, is a sitting duck. Nothing has changed for the tank since the Brits “Big Willie” made its debut at the First Battle of the Somme in 1916. The tank is meant to restore maneuver to the battlefield, punch holes in defense and unleash the cavalry. I don’t see much of that going on in Ukraine. Instead video after video shows lone tanks zipping down roads, or overlooking hill tops, sitting in tree lines at a crossroad, or as a dug in gun emplacement. Only to be easily whacked by a Javelin or drone bombs.

Correct Russian command has totally mismanaged the use of tanks, they send tanks in without any protection.