where does consciousness begin ?

[mapuc]

Well according to this science article it has it's start in quantum physics

A decades-old and controversial theory suggesting that quantum effects in the brain could explain consciousness may hold more weight than scientists gave it credit for.

The nature of consciousness has long puzzled us. One idea, traditionally seen as far fetched, is that the unusual laws that govern the quantum world could be behind what allows us to experience consciousness, New Scientist reports.

https://futurism.com/human-conscious...uantum-physics

Markus

[Rockstar]

… Unfortunately for such attitudes, consciousness is not just an epiphenomenon, a strange concomitant of our neural activity that we project onto physical reality. On the contrary, all that we know, including all our science, is in our consciousness. It is part, not of the superstructure, but of the foundations. No consciousness, no science. Perhaps, indeed, no consciousness, no reality -- of which more later.

Though consciousness is the essential condition for all science, science cannot deal with it. That is not because it is an unassimilable element within science, but just the opposite: science is a highly digestible element within consciousness, which includes science as a limited territory within the much wider reality of whose existence we are conscious. Consciousness itself lies outside the parameters of space and time that would make it accessible to science, and that realization carries an enormous consequence: consciousness cannot be located. But more: it has no location. - George Wald

https://www.elijahwald.com/lifeandmind.html

[Buddahaid]

I "think" most of us have opinions about where it isn't.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

I "think" most of us have opinions about where it isn't.

Agree there have been times in my life I suffered from what doctors would define as a ‘rectal cranial inversion’. And I tell you with all certainty consciousness is not up there.

[Skybird]

I think its indispensable to separate mind/consciousness from - in absence of a better term - spirit. The first has its basis in structured matter, without matter coming to according form, mind/consciousness cannot form and cannot prevail. They are a function of matter and structure. The latter - spirit - however is and must remain to be an object of speculation.

[em2nought]

Right about here

[Onkel Neal]

Where does consciousness come from? Does your consciousness exist before you are born? If so, where is it?

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Where does consciousness come from? Does your consciousness exist before you are born? If so, where is it?

Mine's over at Heinhold's First and Last Chance Saloon.
https://www.heinoldsfirstandlastchance.com/

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Where does consciousness come from? Does your consciousness exist before you are born? If so, where is it?

Consciousness is a funtion of brain activity.

Automatted behaviour and reaction is instincts (which again get processed partially in the brain, partially directly in the peripheral neurons).

Whether there is a mind, or as I called it: spirit, without matter structured in a brain, is a metaphysical speculation - knowing for certain we do not anything, many however believe in claimed answers.

Atman and Anatman: Buddha said no individual Atman/ego (or mind) survives death, but there were the real, the non-ego (anatman) pointing to a quality that is bigger and beyond the individual existence. "Show me your true face that you had before you and you mother and father were born" is a famous koan in Zen.

In the end the miracle lies in that things, that all this even exist. Why do they? Why isn't there just nothing? All we perceive however is not what things, existence, cosmos really is like, because we perceive according to the individual design of the physical sensor used. We can conclude the sensor is what it is becasue it follows a physical need that dictates the form: but where did this proces start, and why? We do not deal with reality, but our imagination/interpretation of it. We deal with our own model - not with what the model is claimed to describe.



That my days have been a dream;
Yet if hope has flown away
In a night, or in a day,
In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.

I stand amid the roar
Of a surf-tormented shore,
And I hold within my hand
Grains of the golden sand —
How few! yet how they creep
Through my fingers to the deep,
While I weep — while I weep!
O God! Can I not grasp
Them with a tighter clasp?
O God! can I not save
One from the pitiless wave?
Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?


E.A. Poe

[mapuc]

I remember an interesting thing that happened when my Niece was about ½-1 year old.

I was holding her and showed her the mirror-Look I said that's you.
My little sister replied..She hasn't developed her consciousness yet
When she said this I started to study my niece face expression when see looked at the mirror and I didn't see any changes.

My conclusion after having studied her with the mirror is:
It does not exclude that she does not have a consciousness
Even though she does not know what she see in the mirror.

Markus

[les green01]

Left mine at subsim door I figure with the folks around here it would get corrupt anyway

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by mapuc

I remember an interesting thing that happened when my Niece was about ½-1 year old.

I was holding her and showed her the mirror-Look I said that's you.
My little sister replied..She hasn't developed her consciousness yet
When she said this I started to study my niece face expression when see looked at the mirror and I didn't see any changes.

My conclusion after having studied her with the mirror is:
It does not exclude that she does not have a consciousness
Even though she does not know what she see in the mirror.

Markus

Agree, Just because she didn’t react doesn’t mean she hasn’t developed consciousness. sense data can be confirmed by an observer (your niece) without necessarily implying understanding.