Does speed setting affect battery charging speed?

[Zero Niner]

Would my batteries recharge faster if, say, I were to travel "Ahead Slow" compared to "Ahead Full"?

[propbeanie]

In theory, the less engine used for propulsion would allow more for charging, but the game does not work like that, so "no, no difference". I have had multiple instances of shooting at a convoy, and being held down by the escorts depth-charging me while the convoy eventually re-groups and moves on. After the escorts little effort and my slipping away, surfacing and doing Ahead Flank to catch the convoy again - in which situation, the batteries in real life would NOT have recharged at all, but in the game, they recharge fully. Lather, Rinse, Repeat...

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

In theory, the less engine used for propulsion would allow more for charging, but the game does not work like that, so "no, no difference". I have had multiple instances of shooting at a convoy, and being held down by the escorts depth-charging me while the convoy eventually re-groups and moves on. After the escorts little effort and my slipping away, surfacing and doing Ahead Flank to catch the convoy again - in which situation, the batteries in real life would NOT have recharged at all, but in the game, they recharge fully. Lather, Rinse, Repeat...

Is it different in FOTRS? I can confirm in TMO, it takes much longer time to recharge when running above ahead 2/3 (10 knots) , 1/3 charges slightly faster, above 2/3 takes much longer and burns a lot of fuel. Seems like stock was same way, been s o long since ran stock though, not sure.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

In theory, the less engine used for propulsion would allow more for charging, but the game does not work like that, so "no, no difference". I have had multiple instances of shooting at a convoy, and being held down by the escorts depth-charging me while the convoy eventually re-groups and moves on. After the escorts little effort and my slipping away, surfacing and doing Ahead Flank to catch the convoy again - in which situation, the batteries in real life would NOT have recharged at all, but in the game, they recharge fully. Lather, Rinse, Repeat...

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Is it different in FOTRS? I can confirm in TMO, it takes much longer time to recharge when running above ahead 2/3 (10 knots) , 1/3 charges slightly faster, above 2/3 takes much longer and burns a lot of fuel. Seems like stock was same way, been s o long since ran stock though, not sure.

have either of you performed any testing of recharging batteries by varying the Engine Power and Engine RPM values in the Subtype.sim files?
i think that there may be some variance in recharging with different values in those two parms.
for instance, if i compare a single set of engine parms for your two mod-sets for say, the S-18.

TMO_BH
Engine power is 1200 and RPM is 500.
FOTRSU
Engine power is 2500 and RPM is 280.

does one model recharge faster/better than the other?
i think another factor is the skill level of the crew but i can only SWAG which skill would be the determining factor(s).
a fourth factor would be capacity, which is determined by range and speed in the same dotSIM file.

if you have done some testing/modeling, what were the results?
if you have not, would you be interested in delving into that? if yes, we can collaborate offline and set up some parameters for testing.

[propbeanie]

CapnScurvy and myself tested this extensively several years ago in Stock and FotRSU during the 'beta' day, and found no discernable difference between standing still and moving, fast or slow. Generally speaking, there is a difference with rpm, but the faster you go, the faster the batts charge, to a point. But, the "most fuel efficient" setting for diesel use is also the most efficient setting for battery charge, although going Ahead Flank results in a faster charge, with a diminishing return as you go above the most fuel efficient engine rpm. We did not test TMO. We have the subs set to get a good fuel economy (too good), and yet not have a super-short re-charge time, with the only way to improve that is with a "battery expert", which is one of the few active Special Abilities in FotRSU, with the "Medic" being another.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

have either of you performed any testing of recharging batteries by varying the Engine Power and Engine RPM values in the Subtype.sim files?
i think that there may be some variance in recharging with different values in those two parms.
for instance, if i compare a single set of engine parms for your two mod-sets for say, the S-18.

TMO_BH
Engine power is 1200 and RPM is 500.
FOTRSU
Engine power is 2500 and RPM is 280.

does one model recharge faster/better than the other?
i think another factor is the skill level of the crew but i can only SWAG which skill would be the determining factor(s).
a fourth factor would be capacity, which is determined by range and speed in the same dotSIM file.

if you have done some testing/modeling, what were the results?
if you have not, would you be interested in delving into that? if yes, we can collaborate offline and set up some parameters for testing.

I am sure the variances between two mods has something to do with how range/speed/power/batteries etc all interact.

In TMO, I have noticed small differences in battery charges times, especially between the S boats, Narwhal, and fleet boats. The older fleet boats like Salmon, Sargo and more modern ones such as Gato, I have noticed no difference. One thing Ducimus instituted as a fix for battery recharge times, which were excessive in all models, was the "Battery Fix" special ability, which is standard for all subs default crews. This crew member



I have no plans to adjust speeds, ranges, etc in TMO as they are close to perfect as can get, submerged and surfaced. I did some brief testing back when was developing mod, just to confirm some things, but I am quite happy with how Ducimus worked things out. I recall when he was working on this for one of the versions, amount of work, testing, tweaking, something I glad he did because not something I would have wanted to do lol. I would have if needed, but glad do not. . Surfaced rangesl, takes into account the ballast tank modifications used during war to give extra fuel. Given that along with battery limitations etc work fine and is historically accurate (within limitations of the sim of course), will leave it as it, spend efforts on other aspects of mod.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

One thing Ducimus instituted as a fix for battery recharge times, which were excessive in all models, was the "Battery Fix" special ability, which is standard for all subs default crews. This crew member

do you remember the name of Ducimus' fix?

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

do you remember the name of Ducimus' fix?

I do not. Not sure if it was ever released on its own, just changes incorporated into V 2.5 (I believe) . The original TMO 2.5 manual (included in download as well as download of my TMO Update) discusses the changes if I recall, to some degree.

[pabbi]

Maybe this helps, found this inside my bookmarks.
It's written by Ducimus


It's been awhile since i've thought about this, so bear with me.

Anyway, there's two ways a battery charge is handled in SH4, depending on if this function is true or false. Those ways are , in laymans terms, the Uboat way, the fleet boat way.

The Uboat way, (aka Direct drive)
- One propeller stops turning because in theory one engine is brought off the line
- Your top speed is reduced
- The battery charges

The only problem with this, is that in SH4, the battery charge takes way too long because the battery multiplier is hardcoded. When working on that uboat mod i attemped, i found a work around for this. Which was taking that one crew super skill parameter that reduces battery usage, and applying that on a really low setting on submerged endurance in the sim file. The result was, a realistic battery recharge time. The acutal battery is maybe 1/4 of what it previously was. The uber skill reduces the time to drain that so it performs like a regular battery. And because it's 1/4 the size of what it previously was, it recharges much faster - about the time it should take to recharge given the discharge rate.


Now then, the fleet boat method, (aka indirect drive)

This is a psuedo adaptation by the developers. Basically the engines area always on. Engines in this case, do not directly power the props. The electric current they generate does. Therego when your charging your batteries, both props keep turning.

Now you may not have noticed because the values prior to the recharge fix i worked out were too high, but battery recharge times will vary based on your speed. The faster you go, the longer it takes to recharge your batteries. The slower you go, the quicker the recharge. If your sitting there, at a dead stop, your basically ideling your engines like a tractor trailer at a rest stop. On the plus side, recharging your battieres doesn't reduce your top speed (though it should).

The way i worked out recharge times in that beta patch for TMO 2.0 was from all stop to 2/3rds it will take roughly 4.5 hours to recharge your batteries. From ahead standard, 8 hours, and from ahead full to ahead flank, 15 and a half hours. (So in theory, the faster you go, the more engines you put "on the line", and the longer the recharge)

I don't know if what i wrote makes any sense. I was up to 3:30 AM last night, and im barely into my first cup of coffee.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by pabbi

Maybe this helps, found this inside my bookmarks.
It's written by Ducimus

thank you for re-posting Ducimus' comments.
it makes for confirmation of some of the results i have discovered with more recent testing, however all of my testing is with US boats. and i have always thought that there are two code sets for SH4, one for the Uboats which is a direct descendent of SH3 and one for the US Boats which is more of distant relation to SH3.

there is definitely a correlation between engine power and battery recharge, although it is not consistent and not arithmetic. which means that you can increase your engine power if you want to recharge faster however, doubling the engine power will NOT halve your re-charge time.

there is also an unexplainable glitch in the Ubi recharging algorithm because when engine power reaches a certain level, running at flank speed will dramatically increase your recharge time.

[pabbi]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

thank you for re-posting Ducimus' comments.
it makes for confirmation of some of the results i have discovered with more recent testing, however all of my testing is with US boats. and i have always thought that there are two code sets for SH4, one for the Uboats which is a direct descendent of SH3 and one for the US Boats which is more of distant relation to SH3.

there is definitely a correlation between engine power and battery recharge, although it is not consistent and not arithmetic. which means that you can increase your engine power if you want to recharge faster however, doubling the engine power will NOT halve your re-charge time.

there is also an unexplainable glitch in the Ubi recharging algorithm because when engine power reaches a certain level, running at flank speed will dramatically increase your recharge time.

If i remember correctly this was written about SH4 battery charging

quote ducemus again

Actually you can. In the game files , (the submarines .sim file to be exact), there's a boolean function. "IsDiesalElectric" or something like that.

quote ends

open this for example C:\Games\SH4-TMO\Data\Submarine\NSS_s18 and then open sim file with Silent Editor. Look in 9. unit submarine and then go to ballast

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by pabbi

If i remember correctly this was written about SH4 battery charging

quote ducemus again

Actually you can. In the game files , (the submarines .sim file to be exact), there's a boolean function. "IsDiesalElectric" or something like that.

quote ends

open this for example C:\Games\SH4-TMO\Data\Submarine\NSS_s18 and then open sim file with Silent Editor. Look in 9. unit submarine and then go to ballast

Thank you for sharing his old post!

Yes, in the .sim fiel there is "IsDieselElectric" and check true or uncheck the box. I've never unchecked to see what it does to one of the subs lol how it plays out in the sim, been on the when have time, test it out list.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by pabbi

If i remember correctly this was written about SH4 battery charging

quote ducemus again

Actually you can. In the game files , (the submarines .sim file to be exact), there's a boolean function. "IsDiesalElectric" or something like that.

quote ends

open this for example C:\Games\SH4-TMO\Data\Submarine\NSS_s18 and then open sim file with Silent Editor. Look in 9. unit submarine and then go to ballast

ok, yes, i have seen that parameter in the dotSIM file.
my thought is that that parm was for something else entirely.
do you think IsDieselElectric has something to do with battery consumption and recharging?

[Mad Mardigan]

Originally Posted by pabbi

If I remember correctly this was written about SH4 battery charging

quote ducemus again

Actually, you can. In the game files, (the submarines .sim file to be exact), there's a Boolean function. "IsDieselElectric" or something like that.

quote ends

open this for example C:\Games\SH4-TMO\Data\Submarine\NSS_s18 and then open sim file with Silent Editor. Look in 9. unit submarine and then go to ballast

On that, am hazarding a SWAG, that... that there, is likely, the kicker switch for it... is that 1 line there, "IsDieselElectric"... sounds about right.

But... again, that's just a SWAG...



M. M.

[pabbi]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

ok, yes, i have seen that parameter in the dotSIM file.
my thought is that that parm was for something else entirely.
do you think IsDieselElectric has something to do with battery consumption and recharging?

If i remember correctly Ducimus was trying to change battery recharging time, They took forever in S-18 for example.