Tesla: ‘There’s almost no reason to have a gas car’

[Onkel Neal]

I know two people now who own Teslas, and the more the tech improves, the more they will catch on. Right now the recharge rate is the only real drawback, and that only affects you on long trips.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/06/jay-...he-future.html

Leno implied Tuesday that he sees electric cars taking over the automobile industry in the future as technology advances.

“Steam ran everything from 1800 to about 1911. Then internal combustion took over from 1911 to right about now. And I predict that a child born today probably has as much chance of driving in a gas car as people today have been driving a car with a stick shift,” he told CNBC.

[Onkel Neal]

Ford enters the arena, not bad although count me as one of the questioners of using the Mustang name for a car that's clearly not a Mustang. Marketing I guess.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/18/...auto-show-2019

And not impressed with the dash/tablet arrangement; looks slapped together, when it should be integrated into the cabin.

But it is another step away from ICE cars, and can't hurt.

[Skybird]

Two, three weeks ago I saw a documetnation on the state of things, and they said in it that while int he wets everybody goes crazy abiut battery-run cars while ignoring the tremendous and extrenly costly infrastructure problem, in many Asian countries incolduing Japan and China, the yhave a very different attitude. In Japan th welcoming of electric cars is coo, only, and in China it is below expctaction as well. The real differen ic that in japan they still are not on the batter ytrain, but push development in two way, regarding hydrogen as well, which is more popular in japan than anywhere else. It avoid allt he priblem s with needing to establish the loading infrastructure, and creharging times. In China the quality was too bad so far, and the government set up a prigrma to have that quality level raised. Still, the media reprts we have in the West that the Chiense go electric like crazy, seem to be propaganda so far.



Sounds to me as if the Asians have a far more sober and realistic approach to electric cars. Especially the Japanese calmness I ike.



Personally I would prefer hydrogen-run cars. I know cretaing hydrogene is mor energy-intensive, but so far I still wait for somebody showing REALISTIC calculations how to establish the needed infrastructure without making it an extremely costly enterprise for the private households owning property and beign forced to pay for the construction. The new laws they mull in Germany will force property owners to pay for it, in case of the six-flats-house where I have my appartment, it would cost 30 to 40 tousand coins to provide the six garages with charging terminals. And subisdies by the state? Dont make me laugh the state get the koeny for these subsidies from taxes, so they would be OUR money that was stolen from us before.



The way it gets pushed her ein the west, I still rate it as hysterical actionism by politicians wanting to please Fridays for Future. To have a shaky greta coaltion in office that at the last election was vouted out and should nto even exist, doe snto make me more optmistic for the forseeable future of a realstric electricity-driven car program. There is no other country in the world - NONE - that tries as desperately as Germany to cripple the one vital key industry it has and on which all national wealth and wellfare depends. The e-cars offered by Germna car makers, are an alarm signal to me. They are extremely expensive and belong to the medium and upper luxury sehment, with the decisive small-cars-sgment beign dominated by Asian car amkers since long, they do the small cars much better by now than the Germans. And still the Germans have nothign better to do than to spank and torture the one industry of theirs that keeps the German ship floating.



Surreal. Unreal. Anti-real.


Tesla wants to build a gigafactory near Berlin, so says Musk. Of course with enormous tax subsidies by the germans. Tesla also builds batteries, a field where the German car makers lag behind, and depend on subcontractors supplying them with batteries. VW just has annoucned to cisnider to mayb estart building it sown batteries. They would be the first german car maker. That is strange when saying at the same time one wants to play at the top.



Teslas are too expensive. The European and German e-cars usually are too expensive as well. The decisive segment are affordable, s all cars, and I think it will be the Asians winnign that race: Japan, India, China, Korea. For small cars, Asian brands would be my first choice since years.

[Hitman]

I think the future will be a mix of electric and hydrogen. Electric for small city vehicles, not jus6t cars but also bikes etc (Many times shared or rented) that can easily recharge on a normal plug, and then hydrogen for family vehciles for trips etc. Anybody who lives less than 40 kms away from work in a single house or condo doesn't really have much problems to recharge daily an electric vehicle for commuting. Statistics show that is the biggest share of vehicles moving around. Then the hydrogen solves all the rest of problems for longer distances.

I believe we will see the electrics start in cities/commuting and then the hydrogen ones replace the diesel/gas ones slowly.

The European and German e-cars usually are too expensive as well. The decisive segment are affordable, s all cars, and I think it will be the Asians winnign that race: Japan, India, China, Korea. For small cars, Asian brands would be my first choice since years.

But, isn't that logical when you consider competition in the lower segment is dominated by sell price and thus low wages and running costs as in most of Asia? I mean, the same applies today to diesel/gas vehicles, where Germany sells quality and more efficient engines in the premium sector. Germany can't win the low cost race, it needs to sell premium vehicles, so I think that part of the idea is OK. The part that becomes problematic, however, is when you realize an electric engine is terribly simple and most can do an efficient one, there is not a lot to gain there, so what can Germany add there? Basically nothing but the badge, unless they drop the millions in better batteries which could net them more benefits.

[Skybird]

Yes, its about fincial affordability, and car quality. German car makers still are associated with superior quality. But in the small car segment, the Asians are better - not just cheaper, but also better. And since the medium price and size segment becomes more and more unaffordable for the ordinary employee, car sales in the smaller size segmet goes up. Luxury cars are just for the very wealthy, and companies leasing them for their business fleet. German brands still oput hjigh empohasis on the medium and high price segment, but the fight for e-mobility I expect to be decided in the small car segment.

Which may also mean the need for loing rnage mediuum and big sized cars will fall. Families may not find it affordable to have a battery car for city traffic, and a hydrogen car for holiday travelling.

Personally, I am a happy user of an e-bicycle, and have no car at all. I have not driven a car since 30 years, I never needed to own a car. I I now would need to buy a car for whatever a reaosn, I honestlky do not know what to do. An all-e-car I would refuse to buy, so probably a small hybrid car, if there are hybrids in the small car segment, I do not know. Else a small gasoline car, probably a Korean or Japanese. The asking prices for small size German cars imo are not justified.

[Hitman]

I don't think many people will have two cars, electric and hydrogen, it is likely that hydrogen ones will just be rented for holidays or weekends. And probably also the small electric ones, in fact the automobile is headed mostly for car sharing apps and rental. Big fleets of rental/shared electric vehicles in the city, where you could not care less about what badge they have, that is the future.

One important part of this is is IMO how the automobile has changed in popular culture. From being a sign of individuality and freedom, to becoming mostly just a tool that gives you an utility. There is also of course the radical left environmentalist inquisition around, happy to point at such mid class freedom dreams as toxic and damaging for the wellness of society. But overall I see millenials and younger people have, save for some exceptions, a quite different perception of the automobile, not different than what they see in a fridge or washing machine. No wonder motorsports are declining big time, popular culture has already moved away from all the automobile once meant.

[THE_MASK]

Tesla in Australia starting from $74900 2021 model
Suzuki swift price starting from $18990 2021 model Fuel consumption 4.6l/100 klms average city highway .
I wont be buying a Tesla anytime soon .

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by sober

Tesla in Australia starting from $74900 2021 model
Suzuki swift price starting from $18990 2021 model Fuel consumption 4.6l/100 klms average city highway .
I wont be buying a Tesla anytime soon .

Yes, pricing needs to come down to earth. Some are there. For me, when a vehicle is cresting $40K...it is time to rethink a lower purchase. But that is just me. I was looking at the KIA/Hyundai offerings. The costs are in the $40K plus range. Others will come along at reasonable prices. I think Tesla has a EV at $37K. However, Tesla has never been a good looking EV IMO.

[AVGWarhawk]

Interesting article on why ICE will never go away completely.

This reason to be the most compelling to me:

The second reason is mining. Replacing all the ICE vehicles in the U.S. with EVs would require stunning amounts of commodities like cobalt, lithium, and copper. The scale of the demand can be understood by looking at a letter that Professor Richard Herrington of the Natural History Museum in London sent to the British government last year. Herrington and his colleagues looked at the U.K.’s climate goals and the requirement that all its vehicles be converted to electricity by 2050. Doing so, they found, would require the entire world’s production of neodymium, three quarters of the world’s lithium production, and at least half of the world’s copper production during 2018. And remember, that’s just for the U.K.!

https://www.realclearenergy.org/arti...ay_651051.html

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Interesting article on why ICE will never go away completely.
This reason to be the most compelling to me:

" ... looked at the U.K.’s climate goals and the requirement that all its vehicles be converted to electricity by 2050. Doing so, they found, would require the entire world’s production of neodymium, three quarters of the world’s lithium production, and at least half of the world’s copper production during 2018. And remember, that’s just for the U.K"

https://www.realclearenergy.org/arti...ay_651051.html

Oh dear, seems they will have to invade the world once more for their energy goals

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Oh dear, seems they will have to invade the world once more for their energy goals

It appears every country will need to invade the world for their energy goals. History repeating itself? I stand firm that EV and only part of answer to climate change. ICE will be here for a very long time.

[THE_MASK]

Where i live in a major city in Australia the price of standard gas is equivelant to $10.40 a us gallon . Thats why i have an electric fat tyre electric bicycle and an electric scooter for getting around on a daily basis . Will be getting a Tesla for longer trips .

[Oubaas]

I don't think electric cars are going to make it. They're expensive. And if everybody gets one, it will probably collapse our rickety old grid here in the US.

We should go back to steam. With modern technology, bringing one up to pressure would be a matter of seconds instead of minutes. And they'd be much lighter than they used to be.

I wonder why the automakers don't offer a model powered by something like the Cyclone Engine from Cyclone Technologies? It would be better than electric or hydrogen or any of that other stuff.

There's some company trying to get started selling mini-reactors to power homes and remote sites and things. I was reading about them the other day.

Why not pair a mini-reactor with the Cyclone Engine in automoobiles? Zero carbon cars.

[Skybird]

No, we need horses, but a special breed of horses with anti-burp systems and fart filters.

Ah, damn, animal wellbeing. No horses then. Bicycles. Thats the German way. China builds 240 new airports until 2032 or 2033. Germany puts its money on bicycles. Or as EVP-head Manfred Weber (CDU) of the EU said: "We must convince the world that our way is the only right one."

[Oubaas]

Convincing me to believe that anything "they" say is valid became impossible quite a few years ago. Manfred must still be wet behind the ears if he truly believes that anyone with more than four functioning brain cells still believes anything promulgated by the people who labor under the delusion that they run things. Sorry Manfred, automatically rejected as untrue. You'll have to sell that idea to the folks of whom P. T. Barnum spoke.

The name of the mini reactor is the NuScale Modular Reactor. It was just recently approved by the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission. Meanwhile, they're assembling ITER in France, a fusion reactor that I think uses molten salt.

Now, if NuScale could shrink their reactor down to automobile size, with consumer pricing, and the automakers paired it with the Cyclone Engine, we'd have zero carbon cars that don't need gas stations! So much the better if NuScale could shrink and modularize the ITER technology and use fusion.

As for electric cars, think of poor Texas with their grid.

"What happened? Why did the power go off?"

"The people in Austin just got home from work and plugged in their cars."