So are the hydrophones supposed to work on the surface?

suitednate · 12-10-14, 11:04 PM

I've been reading both yes and no answers on this forum. I have been in porpoise, salmon, and Tambor classes and they havent been working on the surface for me. Just want to know what is realistic and a definitive answer.

The time dilation glitch thingy kinda gives away when you are supposed to dive to do a sound check. If in fact the hydros aren't supposed to work on the surface that is.....

Spraug · 12-11-14, 05:40 AM

My understanding is the following: the hydrophones are on the bottom of the boat, therefore they are deep enough under water to also work when surfaced. However so close to the disturbance of the waves, you cannot hear the fainter sounds of more remote ships. Therefore - apart from thermal layers of course - the effective range increases when you dive and get more distance between you and the waves. This effect decreases though, because at some depth the waves are just far away enough to not cause any more disruption. In a storm where the waves are higher than the boat the hydrophones would probably be useless on the surface but submerged have a much better range than spotting and probably even early radar on the surface.

How it is implemented in the game I have no idea however.

merc4ulfate · 12-11-14, 03:50 PM

The boat has three passive listening devices.

One on the top of the deck ... that is the JP sonic passive hydrophone. JP is the Navy term for sonic listening gear. The J means that it can be used for listening only. The second letter P merely indicates the model.
Sonic gear is useful for picking up targets at great distances because sonic sounds travel farther. Also, on the JP gear sounds appear more natural and are more easily recognized. Therefore, you can identify not only the machinery noises of enemy ships, but also any telltale noises your own submarine is making.

There are two supersonic hydrophones under the boat in shafts that make them retractable.

Supersonic gear picks up sounds too high for the human ear to hear and changes them into sounds which can be heard.

JK/QC is the Navy term for one type of supersonic gear. The JK half of the combination projector is for listening only; the QC half can also be used for sending out sounds into the water.

QB designates the other type. As indicated by the letter Q, the QB projector can send as well as receive sounds.

Supersonic gear is useful for picking up the important supersonic noises that sonic cannot get. Supersonic gear is especially superior for catching the bursts of supersonic sound used by enemy escort vessels in searching for our submarines. (In addition, QB and QC gear can be used to send out sounds into the water to determine the range of an enemy ship.)

It consists of three main divisions: QB, JK/QC, and NM. The QB projector is a spherical hydrophone mounted on the lower end of the starboard training shaft. One face contains rochelle salt crystals, which change shape when a sound wave strikes this face of the projector. The other side is empty.

The JK/QC combination projector is mounted portside. The JK face is just like QB. The QC face contains small nickel tubes, which change size when a sound wave strikes this face. The NM Projector looks some thing like a small steel coffin. It is bolted flush with the bottom of the submarine in the forward trim tank. The NM projector gets the current needed to send out pings from the same driver that is used with the. QC system.

When a submarine is running submerged, normally two men are on sonar watch. One is on the JP in the forward torpedo room. The other is at the WCA stack in the conning tower. The conning officer is at the periscope.

from:

NavPers 16167
Produced for ComSubLant by Standards and Curriculum Division Training, Bureau of Naval Personnel. Submarine Sonar Operator's Manual
June 1944
CONFIDENTIAL

===============

Chapter 5, page 38

"When your submarine surfaces, you will continue searching. While it is running at a slow speed, you will be able to listen efficiently."

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/fleetsub/sonar/index.htm

In the book, U.S. Submarines Through 1945: An Illustrated Design History, By Norman Friedman, page 198 states:

"Only in 1940-1941 did the U.S. Navy encounter British thin-steel domes, which made it possible to operate at about 15 kts."

This made it possible to use passive sonar to 15 kts.

By 1945 a single capital or merchant could be detected at 10,000 yards, a convoy at 15,000 and escorted capital ships at 20,000 yards.

This makes the idea of mods reducing passive sonar levels unrealistic.
========

=============

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
RFB_2.0
RFB_2.0_Patch_23April2010
RSRDC_RFB_V575
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1
More_DDs_for_AITorpedoLauncher
Improved Ship Physics_2.15
Classe_Balao_CamoTri

suitednate · 12-11-14, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merc4ulfate

The boat has three passive listening devices.

One on the top of the deck ... that is the JP sonic passive hydrophone. JP is the Navy term for sonic listening gear. The J means that it can be used for listening only. The second letter P merely indicates the model.
Sonic gear is useful for picking up targets at great distances because sonic sounds travel farther. Also, on the JP gear sounds appear more natural and are more easily recognized. Therefore, you can identify not only the machinery noises of enemy ships, but also any telltale noises your own submarine is making.

There are two supersonic hydrophones under the boat in shafts that make them retractable.

Supersonic gear picks up sounds too high for the human ear to hear and changes them into sounds which can be heard.

JK/QC is the Navy term for one type of supersonic gear. The JK half of the combination projector is for listening only; the QC half can also be used for sending out sounds into the water.

QB designates the other type. As indicated by the letter Q, the QB projector can send as well as receive sounds.

Supersonic gear is useful for picking up the important supersonic noises that sonic cannot get. Supersonic gear is especially superior for catching the bursts of supersonic sound used by enemy escort vessels in searching for our submarines. (In addition, QB and QC gear can be used to send out sounds into the water to determine the range of an enemy ship.)

It consists of three main divisions: QB, JK/QC, and NM. The QB projector is a spherical hydrophone mounted on the lower end of the starboard training shaft. One face contains rochelle salt crystals, which change shape when a sound wave strikes this face of the projector. The other side is empty.

The JK/QC combination projector is mounted portside. The JK face is just like QB. The QC face contains small nickel tubes, which change size when a sound wave strikes this face. The NM Projector looks some thing like a small steel coffin. It is bolted flush with the bottom of the submarine in the forward trim tank. The NM projector gets the current needed to send out pings from the same driver that is used with the. QC system.

When a submarine is running submerged, normally two men are on sonar watch. One is on the JP in the forward torpedo room. The other is at the WCA stack in the conning tower. The conning officer is at the periscope.

from:

NavPers 16167
Produced for ComSubLant by Standards and Curriculum Division Training, Bureau of Naval Personnel. Submarine Sonar Operator's Manual
June 1944
CONFIDENTIAL

===============

Chapter 5, page 38

"When your submarine surfaces, you will continue searching. While it is running at a slow speed, you will be able to listen efficiently."

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/fleetsub/sonar/index.htm

In the book, U.S. Submarines Through 1945: An Illustrated Design History, By Norman Friedman, page 198 states:

"Only in 1940-1941 did the U.S. Navy encounter British thin-steel domes, which made it possible to operate at about 15 kts."

This made it possible to use passive sonar to 15 kts.

By 1945 a single capital or merchant could be detected at 10,000 yards, a convoy at 15,000 and escorted capital ships at 20,000 yards.

This makes the idea of mods reducing passive sonar levels unrealistic.
========

=============

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
RFB_2.0
RFB_2.0_Patch_23April2010
RSRDC_RFB_V575
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1
More_DDs_for_AITorpedoLauncher
Improved Ship Physics_2.15
Classe_Balao_CamoTri

So is that a yes or a no?

I'm playing in late 41 and early 42 at the moment in the classes I stated above. I don't seem to hear anything on the surface. Not even my own engines.

THEBERBSTER · 12-11-14, 07:08 PM

It's a yes.

In SH4 there is a full explanation in the TMO manual of how it works in the game.

JP sonic passive listening gear.
Available from January 1943
Max Range 15,000 yards

In SH4 JP is used in conjunction with WCA
Detection Range 15,000 yards submerged 10,000 yards surfaced.

Sniper297 · 12-11-14, 08:38 PM

One caveat; the programming for the game is designed to use one sensor and one sensor only at a time. So if you're on the surface in clear visibility and the lookouts can SEE the target, the sound man cannot HEAR the target. Foggy weather you're more likely to get a sound contact because the deck watch can't see it. The whole thing is completely screwed up, but if you're playing with map contact updates on, you should be able to see the blue or black lines indicating a sound contact up to 10 miles away. On the sonar station itself if you rotate the indicator the green lamp should light up and you'll hear the propeller noise within 10 degrees of the bearing, if the target is moving at 5 knots or better. A stationary target or one creeping along at 1 knot (the small troopship "task force" does that a lot) won't show a green light or make any sound, or show bearing lines on the map.

BTW this is stock SH4 1.4 I'm talking about, I have no idea what was changed in various gameplay mods, depending on what mods you have installed and in what order the sonar might not work the same way.

12-10-14, 11:04 PM	#1
suitednate Planesman Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 198 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	So are the hydrophones supposed to work on the surface? I've been reading both yes and no answers on this forum. I have been in porpoise, salmon, and Tambor classes and they havent been working on the surface for me. Just want to know what is realistic and a definitive answer. The time dilation glitch thingy kinda gives away when you are supposed to dive to do a sound check. If in fact the hydros aren't supposed to work on the surface that is.....

12-11-14, 05:40 AM	#2
Spraug Helmsman Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 105 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Unfortunately I'm not one of the board experts My understanding is the following: the hydrophones are on the bottom of the boat, therefore they are deep enough under water to also work when surfaced. However so close to the disturbance of the waves, you cannot hear the fainter sounds of more remote ships. Therefore - apart from thermal layers of course - the effective range increases when you dive and get more distance between you and the waves. This effect decreases though, because at some depth the waves are just far away enough to not cause any more disruption. In a storm where the waves are higher than the boat the hydrophones would probably be useless on the surface but submerged have a much better range than spotting and probably even early radar on the surface. How it is implemented in the game I have no idea however. __________________ Playing: Windows 10 - Steam - Silent Hunter 4 v1.5 1_TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2-5 1_TMO_25_small_patch RSRDC_TMO_V502 RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1 SCAF for RSRDC v502_2.0 IJN_Radar_Fix_2

12-11-14, 03:50 PM	#3
merc4ulfate DILLIGAF Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: florida Posts: 2,058 Downloads: 210 Uploads: 0	The boat has three passive listening devices. One on the top of the deck ... that is the JP sonic passive hydrophone. JP is the Navy term for sonic listening gear. The J means that it can be used for listening only. The second letter P merely indicates the model. Sonic gear is useful for picking up targets at great distances because sonic sounds travel farther. Also, on the JP gear sounds appear more natural and are more easily recognized. Therefore, you can identify not only the machinery noises of enemy ships, but also any telltale noises your own submarine is making. There are two supersonic hydrophones under the boat in shafts that make them retractable. Supersonic gear picks up sounds too high for the human ear to hear and changes them into sounds which can be heard. JK/QC is the Navy term for one type of supersonic gear. The JK half of the combination projector is for listening only; the QC half can also be used for sending out sounds into the water. QB designates the other type. As indicated by the letter Q, the QB projector can send as well as receive sounds. Supersonic gear is useful for picking up the important supersonic noises that sonic cannot get. Supersonic gear is especially superior for catching the bursts of supersonic sound used by enemy escort vessels in searching for our submarines. (In addition, QB and QC gear can be used to send out sounds into the water to determine the range of an enemy ship.) It consists of three main divisions: QB, JK/QC, and NM. The QB projector is a spherical hydrophone mounted on the lower end of the starboard training shaft. One face contains rochelle salt crystals, which change shape when a sound wave strikes this face of the projector. The other side is empty. The JK/QC combination projector is mounted portside. The JK face is just like QB. The QC face contains small nickel tubes, which change size when a sound wave strikes this face. The NM Projector looks some thing like a small steel coffin. It is bolted flush with the bottom of the submarine in the forward trim tank. The NM projector gets the current needed to send out pings from the same driver that is used with the. QC system. When a submarine is running submerged, normally two men are on sonar watch. One is on the JP in the forward torpedo room. The other is at the WCA stack in the conning tower. The conning officer is at the periscope. from: NavPers 16167 Produced for ComSubLant by Standards and Curriculum Division Training, Bureau of Naval Personnel. Submarine Sonar Operator's Manual June 1944 CONFIDENTIAL =============== Chapter 5, page 38 "When your submarine surfaces, you will continue searching. While it is running at a slow speed, you will be able to listen efficiently." http://www.hnsa.org/doc/fleetsub/sonar/index.htm In the book, U.S. Submarines Through 1945: An Illustrated Design History, By Norman Friedman, page 198 states: "Only in 1940-1941 did the U.S. Navy encounter British thin-steel domes, which made it possible to operate at about 15 kts." This made it possible to use passive sonar to 15 kts. By 1945 a single capital or merchant could be detected at 10,000 yards, a convoy at 15,000 and escorted capital ships at 20,000 yards. This makes the idea of mods reducing passive sonar levels unrealistic. ======== ============= Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157 RFB_2.0 RFB_2.0_Patch_23April2010 RSRDC_RFB_V575 RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1 More_DDs_for_AITorpedoLauncher Improved Ship Physics_2.15 Classe_Balao_CamoTri __________________ Self-education is, I firmly believe, the only kind of education there is. ~Isaac Asimov~ Mercfulfate 将補日本帝國海軍

12-11-14, 07:08 PM	#5
THEBERBSTER Growing Old Disgracefully Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Hythe - Southampton Posts: 9,609 Downloads: 1133 Uploads: 0	It's a yes. In SH4 there is a full explanation in the TMO manual of how it works in the game. JP sonic passive listening gear. Available from January 1943 Max Range 15,000 yards In SH4 JP is used in conjunction with WCA Detection Range 15,000 yards submerged 10,000 yards surfaced. __________________ LSH3-2015 <> TUTORIALS <> ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW <> ALL IN ONE PLACE SH4 <> TUTORIALS <> HOW TO DO IT <> INFORMATION <> DOWNLOAD LINKS SH5 <> TUTORIALS <> HOW TO DO IT <> INFORMATION <> DOWNLOAD LINKS Always Here To Help A Fellow 'Subber' \| Need An Answer to A Question Just Send Me A PM Last edited by THEBERBSTER; 12-11-14 at 07:24 PM.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

12-11-14, 08:38 PM	#6
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	One caveat; the programming for the game is designed to use one sensor and one sensor only at a time. So if you're on the surface in clear visibility and the lookouts can SEE the target, the sound man cannot HEAR the target. Foggy weather you're more likely to get a sound contact because the deck watch can't see it. The whole thing is completely screwed up, but if you're playing with map contact updates on, you should be able to see the blue or black lines indicating a sound contact up to 10 miles away. On the sonar station itself if you rotate the indicator the green lamp should light up and you'll hear the propeller noise within 10 degrees of the bearing, if the target is moving at 5 knots or better. A stationary target or one creeping along at 1 knot (the small troopship "task force" does that a lot) won't show a green light or make any sound, or show bearing lines on the map. BTW this is stock SH4 1.4 I'm talking about, I have no idea what was changed in various gameplay mods, depending on what mods you have installed and in what order the sonar might not work the same way.