45th anniversary of Long Tan

[TarJak]

Battle of Long Tan will be commemorated today with the servicemen of the units involved receiving long awaited gallantry awards. http://www.google.com.au/url?q=http:...Z_gOiRrArLzVmA

[Falkirion]

Finally the men who fought there are getting the recognition they deserve. I don't understand why Korean/Vietnam vets are overlooked in favor of the older vets of WW1 & 2. I guess its just the fact that WW1 & 2 sound bigger and better than wars that were isolated to just one country.

Slightly off topic but do any aussie members here know if there are any surviving WW1 vets left?

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Falkirion

Finally the men who fought there are getting the recognition they deserve. I don't understand why Korean/Vietnam vets are overlooked in favor of the older vets of WW1 & 2. I guess its just the fact that WW1 & 2 sound bigger and better than wars that were isolated to just one country.

Slightly off topic but do any aussie members here know if there are any surviving WW1 vets left?

I think that Vietnam and Korea get ignored because they where different wars than the likes of WWI and WWII Korea went poorly because China got involved and in the end no side made any gains at all in fact most of the Korean had combat much like WWI.

Vietnam was a real let down for guys who fought over there they did jobs well and in open battle the NVA Viet Cong never defeated us they managed to win the physiological war because we let them.Media made a big deal about TET in 1968 and it did show that we where not as successful up to that point but we soundly defeated the NVA and the Viet Cong sappers never even made it inside the US Embassy people back home just say that on TV and that was that.The North knew that they could take advantage of the general public and they did that combined with poor strategy is what cost us that war.You know that they never really openly bombed the North fully until 1972 and that got them to the table in days.People got upset about going into Cambodia in 1970 bust we had allowed that to happen for years how can you defeat an enemy when you allow him to evaporate to a safe haven when he so desires(a Group called the Taliban does the same thing today in a place called Pakistan history repeating)A tiger can kill an elephant.

My dad was a LRRP in Vietnam and sometimes the SAS regiment would send a few guys to see how the LRRPs did things he said that they carried FNFALs which fire 7.62x51mm which only was available in linked belts for the M-60 in most US Army units by that time so the Aussies either had to carry a Car-15 or M-16 or take apart M-60 belts by hand and then load their FAL mags the Aussies never carried M-16s(well some did you can see so in pictures but the SAS boys disliked them) so they would spend the hours after a mission drinking beer and de linking ammo belts.

[TLAM Strike]

A lot of people don't know that Vietnam was really an international war on both sides.

Thank you Australia for backing us up over there.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

A lot of people don't know that Vietnam was really an international war on both sides.

Embarrassed, I must admit I never knew Australia had combat forces in Viet Nam.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Embarrassed, I must admit I never knew Australia had combat forces in Viet Nam.

So did South Korea, New Zealand, Taiwan, Spain (medical personnel) and the Philippines. Thailand, Laos and Cambodia were also involved on the US/S. Vietnam side.

Believe it or not on the Communist side North Korea had forces fighting as well; some 200 or so fighter pilots.

[TarJak]

Yep we were there from 1962 until 1973: http://www.awm.gov.au/atwar/vietnam.asp & http://www.vvaa.org.au/calendar.htm In all we had 60,000 service involved over that period with 521 KIA and about 3000 wounded.

As a kid I remember watching the nightly news reports telling us what was going on and though I didn't realise it at the time, I now recall a shift in the way the war and the protests against it were reported.

If you get the chance take a look at The Odd Angry Shot which is about the Australian SAS regiment in Vietman. Its good for a laugh in parts as well.

The reason recognition was much less in the 60's and 70's was that the Vietnam war was not actually a declared war and was seen at the time as a police action. This meant that awards for gallantry were not issued and even though some Victoria Crosses were handed out, unit citations for gallantry were few and far between for that conflict. It was more a government policy decision than anything else.

[Dowly]

Thanks for the info. I've seen tons of Viet Nam docs, but none of them ever
mention the other countries that were involved.

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Thanks for the info. I've seen tons of Viet Nam docs, but none of them ever
mention the other countries that were involved.

I watched a good doco on Long Tan which hardly mentioned the yanks involvement.

IIRC we've been involved in almost all major and a lot of minor conflicts since WWII.

[Highbury]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Embarrassed, I must admit I never knew Australia had combat forces in Viet Nam.

I am in this camp too. I knew of French involvement before the US but during what we know as the Vietnam War, I knew almost nothing of the involvement of other nations like Australia, and deeply embarrassing for me, Canada who apparently sent 40,000 troops between '59 - '75. You learn something new every day, and some days are more humbling then others.

It is great to hear that Aussies are getting a long deserved recognition.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Embarrassed, I must admit I never knew Australia had combat forces in Viet Nam.

Ayup. My destroyer worked with a combined task force led by the Aussie carrier HMAS Melbourne. An interesting side-note is that while we were in Houston I Tarjak and I had a nice chat, and it turns out his dad was in that task force at that time. Small world.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Ayup. My destroyer worked with a combined task force led by the Aussie carrier HMAS Melbourne.

Very interesting, did the Aussies fly any combat missions ashore?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Very interesting, did the Aussies fly any combat missions ashore?

That I don't know. But I do know that she was considered a 'hard luck' ship, and some of that tried to rub off on us.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Very interesting, did the Aussies fly any combat missions ashore?

They did indeed(RAAF units) they had at least one Canberra Squadron that flew indirection missions in the South as well a several units that flew various versions of the Huey (UH-1) they even flew gunship versions of the UH-1D the US used versions of the UH-1B,C,E,and F all of which where basically the same as the B but with different engines the D model was larger and served only as a transport in the US the Aussies mounted rockets and mini guns on their D models I think because they did not have smaller B variants.

Also someone said Laos was on the side of the US not entirely correct Laos was under the control of the Patet Lao a communist government and the Royal Laos they fought a civil war from 1954-1975 and the communists won the Royal Lao hung on until 1975 but had lost most of the country by the mid 60's.The CIA worked with Hmong an ethnic group that the Patet Lao disliked some of them where able to come to the US after we left Vietnam in 1975 I have neighbors who are Hmong and their fathers fought against the Patet Lao and NVA.Air America was heavily involved in supplying the Hmong with supplies.

Cambodia was another bogus ally the ruler of the Cambodia pre 1970 allowed North Vietnam free reign in certain border regions so the CIA had him over thrown in 1970 it was too late by then and the Khmer Rouge took over in 1975.

The Philippines also had troops in Vietnam I dont think they where combat troops.

It is rumored that Brit SAS units where involved in Vietnam I find that doubtful there where plenty of skilled US Aussie and Kiwi SF units already there.Did the SAS send troopers in small numbers to go on operations with in country SF? Very likely.

Chinese and Soviet military advisers where also most certainly in Vietnam mainly to train the North in the use of advanced systems like SAMs and Radar.In fact during rolling thunder many SAM sites where placed off limits because they had Russians helping setting them up you can ask any Navy or Air Force pilot that flew up there during Thunder they will tell you.They had to wait until the sites where set up and the Russians gone.

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Very interesting, did the Aussies fly any combat missions ashore?

The RAN FAA also flew missions ashore: http://www.navy.gov.au/Naval_Operati...dy_Job_Done.27

HMAS Sydney which converted to a helicopter carrier in early 1960's was nicknamed the Vung Tau Ferry as she was used to ship Australian troops between VN and AU.

http://www.navy.gov.au/Naval_Operati...g_Tau_Ferry.27

HMA Ships Hobart, Perth, Brisbane & Vendetta were used in shore bombartment roles and as general duties destroyers assigned to the US 7th Fleet.

http://www.navy.gov.au/Naval_Operati...e_.26_Vendetta

And we also had navy clearance diver teams:
http://www.navy.gov.au/Naval_Operati..._and_Undaunted