Doctors blocked from asking about guns

[Feuer Frei!]

Four years ago, an experienced gun owner in Pembroke Pines named Reynaldo Gonzalez made an exception he will forever regret.

His 15-year-old daughter, Yamel Trigo, begged to show off his guns, usually locked away except when Gonzalez went to the range, to a visiting teenage cousin. Out came the guns and a camera, Yamel recalls. The cousin posed with a .22-caliber rifle, which Yamel's dad thought was unloaded.
The cousin put her finger on the trigger — something safety-minded gun owners know never to do unless you mean to fire. The rifle went off. The bullet hit Yamel in the neck and left her a quadriplegic.


Cases like Yamel's in which kids are shot accidentally are hardly new, but now they're at the core of an unusual legal battle pitting a portion of the medical profession against some powerful gun-rights advocates and the state of Florida.

At issue is a new state law, the first of its kind in the nation, that forbids licensed healthcare workers from asking patients about gun ownership and gun safety absent compelling reasons. Supporters, including the National Rifle Association, say the law was needed to protect gun owners' privacy and stop doctors from "harassing'' patients on the subject.

The law, which went into effect June 2 when Gov. Rick Scott signed it, has prompted a lawsuit in federal court from three professional groups representing thousands of Florida physicians. They say it unconstitutionally curtails their freedom of speech and interferes with their ability to look after patients' well-being.
The law says healthcare workers "should refrain'' from asking about guns, recording information about gun ownership on medical records or "unnecessarily harassing'' patients unless the question is "relevant,'' or risk loss of their license and a $10,000 fine. Physicians say the steep sanctions effectively chill many practitioners' willingness to raise the subject. The consequence, they argue, will be more tragedies like Yamel's.

Asking about gun ownership, and whether firearms are safely stored, has been standard medical procedure across the country for years — not just for clinicians treating depression or mental illness, but also for pediatricians and family doctors. Their practices are increasingly focused on injury prevention.
It's also been standard among therapists dealing with a sharp increase in the incidence of dementia, whose sufferers, they say, should be kept away from guns.

Critics of the law say its vague wording raises a serious legal conundrum for physicians: If they're not supposed to ask whether patients or their family members keep guns, and under what circumstances, how can they determine if the information is relevant? And how would the state medical licensing board judge a complaint?
Lawyers for the state argue that nothing in the law stops healthcare providers from asking about guns if they believe "in good faith'' that the question is relevant "to medical health or safety.''

"The act instructs physicians only to respect the rights of patients who decline to disclose their ownership or possession of firearms,'' Assistant Attorney General Jason Vail wrote in a court brief. "A controversy exists only because the plaintiffs misconstrue the act.''

The NRA's chief lobbyist in Tallahassee, Marion Hammer, a key backer of the bill, declined to comment, citing the pending litigation. The NRA is not a party to the case because the judge turned down its request to intervene.

The state medical board sent out a letter advising healthcare workers to ask about guns only when it's relevant but provided little guidance. The University of Miami told its physicians at Jackson Memorial Hospital to strip questions about guns from written questionnaires.

SOURCE

[Osmium Steele]

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

The University of Miami told its physicians at Jackson Memorial Hospital to strip questions about guns from written questionnaires.

That's your problem, right there.

[yubba]

They don't need to know what made the hole, they need to know how to fix the hole. more lib regs. I wonder how they are making out on the fast and furious hearings

So you have these laws which say people who are mentally incapable can't have guns, and you have their doctors who are not allowed to ask them if they have guns.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

I really don't understand this law but this is not first time I find understanding Americans a bit challenging.

And to put this to record: I have nothing against firearm ownership as long as they are kept in right hands (ie. not in kids, mentally ill, people with dementia). In my family dad have several rifles and shotguns just like my little brother. Mom doesn't have use for one and I don't bother to ask from police about gun permit as its almost certain that it would be rejected.

Why it would be rejected? Same reason why army put me to category D (relieved from both peace and wartime conscription): legally deafblind.

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by yubba

They don't need to know what made the hole, they need to know how to fix the hole. more lib regs. I wonder how they are making out on the fast and furious hearings

Part of fixing the hole is knowing what made the hole...

[Osmium Steele]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

So you have these laws which say people who are mentally incapable can't have guns, and you have their doctors who are not allowed to ask them if they have guns.

Asking about gun ownership, and whether firearms are safely stored, has been standard medical procedure across the country for years — not just for clinicians treating depression or mental illness, but also for pediatricians and family doctors

At issue is a new state law, the first of its kind in the nation, that forbids licensed healthcare workers from asking patients about gun ownership and gun safety absent compelling reasons.

Mental capacity/dementia would likely be considered compelling reasons, and should be allowed under the law. Passes the common sense test anyway.

Mental capacity/dementia would likely be considered compelling reasons, and should be allowed under the law. Passes the common sense test anyway.

But when it comes to gun rights and possible litigation common sense has a tendancy to go out the window

[Osmium Steele]

True, true.

Shouldn't be too bad in Flalaland.

[August]

The cousin put her finger on the trigger — something safety-minded gun owners know never to do unless you mean to fire. The rifle went off. The bullet hit Yamel in the neck and left her a quadriplegic.

Physicians say the steep sanctions effectively chill many practitioners' willingness to raise the subject. The consequence, they argue, will be more tragedies like Yamel's.

How?

[Platapus]

I have never had any doctor ask me about guns.

"don't worry it ain't loaded" got to be the quote of all time.

[razark]

Originally Posted by August

How?

Because, as everyone knows, doctors are responsible for training people proper gun safety.

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by August

How?

I think what is relevant here is the dementia angle. Doctors examining people with mental problems could inform the family that the patient should be kept away from firearms if they own them to help prevent accidents.

If it is part of a formal questionnaire then the doctor would be required to report the gun ownership to the authorities just like they have to report child and senior abuse, and that's the sticky part.

If it is part of a formal questionnaire then the doctor would be required to report the gun ownership to the authorities just like they have to report child and senior abuse, and that's the sticky part.

That is an infringfement
sticky eh