Have you sunk an Elco class?

[WH4K]

Those Elco-class torpedo boats are annoying. Three of them jumped me in my Type IIB earlier today (well, December 1939 in game terms). I nearly got killed to death. That's the last time I investigate a fast-moving warship contact on the surface in daylight.

Since I use GWX 3.0, I didn't find out until my refit that I only had 39% hull integrity left when I finally got away from them. Yikes.

Has anyone managed to sink one of those little bastards? I found that I was simply unable to get into a good firing position. Even if I had been able to out-turn them underwater in my dugout (hint: not going to happen), speed was a big problem. They were moving so darned fast that I had no chance to calculate the inputs for the TDC anyway. They were maneuvering around such that the solution would have been obsolete as soon as I clicked, "Fire."

About my only chance against these guys would be to catch them at night, get in a couple of good hits with the deck gun (which would require having a deck gun), and then maybe shred them with the Flak cannon before they machine gun me to death.

[VONHARRIS]

I have learned the hard way not to mess with them in GWX3.0
When I was using the vanilla version they could be easily sunk with the AA guns.

[Capt. Morgan]

Originally Posted by WH4K

.. I nearly got killed to death. ....

I hate it when that happens.


I always thought the Elcos weren't equipped with hydrophones. I just assumed they couldn't hear me and submerged. It has always worked so far, but I give the little jerks a wide berth anyway.

I've never torpedoed one, never tried, but if they are just steaming in a straight line, and you've a spare electric torp - it might be worth a try. I once torpedoed a sanpan in SH4. Not worth any tonnage, but it did fly up about a hundred meters in the air.

[Gerald]

One should be cautious, because their efficiency fire may cause damage to your hull,and in most cases,you dive to avoid problems,unless weather or other factors are at your side

[kapuhy]

To paraphrase the title from neighbouring thread - why bother attacking Elcos? They're simply not worth the effort. Their tonnage is negligible, they're not (or, at least, I've never seen them in this role) protecting big fat merchants, their sinking won't make the headlines or grant you any awards.

Only situation when I would consider attacking an Elco is in self defence - if one came out of the fog 500 meters away in shallow water, for example. In this case I would opt for deck gun and AA guns (torpedoes are right out against alerted ship of that size and speed).

[CherryHarbey]

Originally Posted by kapuhy

To paraphrase the title from neighbouring thread - why bother attacking Elcos? They're simply not worth the effort. Their tonnage is negligible, they're not (or, at least, I've never seen them in this role) protecting big fat merchants, their sinking won't make the headlines or grant you any awards.

Only situation when I would consider attacking an Elco is in self defence - if one came out of the fog 500 meters away in shallow water, for example. In this case I would opt for deck gun and AA guns (torpedoes are right out against alerted ship of that size and speed).

Agree with all of this.

Only reason I could see for trying to sink one, is if you play SH3 as in an arcade thrill a minute style. I don't so, trying to sink one is (for me) completely pointless.

[ediko]

Don't mess with the buggers, those AA's they got can eat through you're boat alive and god forbid you have any crew on deck when they spot you, the poor sailors are pretty much dead. Just dive as fast as you can and never look back, I did try to sink the PT boat once.... lesson learned the hard way

[Sailor Steve]

The Americans called the Mosquito Boats for a reason. They bite, and they're very hard to swat.

On the other hand, one of the things that annoys me about SH3 is that the ELCO was strictly an American boat, and was used only in the Pacific and the Med. The British used their own home-grown Vosper boats.

[wicked_panda]

Although i try to avoid these little bastards, sometimes i get forced to engage them, mainly because i am surfaced charging batteries, loading an external torp or trying to put a bullet in the head to that poor little deer (or hog) i hurt earlier. Sure i can always disengage the prey and crash dive, but once they start to shoot at you, suddenly becomes a matter of EGO or self esteem.

What hurt can do to you the sailor of the atlantic, the commander of a Kriegsmarine U-boat, what hurt can do that piece of crap with a couple of 20 mm machine guns??

When i realize i am being attacked by an ELCO boat, i use the 20 mm and rarely the single shot 37mm, trying to aim to the forward MG and if you are lucky enough and blow up that MG the battle is yours, this way you force them to show the side, if thay are close enough (i mean 100 to 300 yards), you can shot few rounds with your main gun, but sometimes i try to stick in destroying the MG´s.


That little bastards don t worth the 20 points of renown so is up to you if you want to figth

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by wicked_panda

What hurt can do to you the sailor of the atlantic, the commander of a Kriegsmarine U-boat, what hurt can do that piece of crap with a couple of 20 mm machine guns??

Uh... punch a hole in your pressure hull? It only takes one.

[Obersteuermann]

I once got set upon by two whilst playing as the SS Deutschland with the warships mod. Spent a good half hour chasing them round my ship blasting at them with the main turret armament.

Eventually I did get a good square hit on one that blew him backwards, but it was out of all proportion to the number of rounds I fired at him.

If I'm in a U-boat and one of those little bastards pops up, I crash dive straightaway. They're just not worth it!

[Mouftic]

If you encounter one (or three) just dive. They dont have passive or active sonar.

Now if you wanna see something funny, sneak up on one, torpedo it and watch it FLYYYYYYYYYY!



They always manage to land right back keel down.

[Fish In The Water]

Originally Posted by Obersteuermann

If I'm in a U-boat and one of those little bastards pops up, I crash dive straightaway. They're just not worth it!

Agreed...

No sense playing around with small fish, especially when you've got a lot more to lose than you do to gain. Better to pick your battles wisely and save yourself for the big ones!

[Missing Name]

I actually think PT boats should have some form of ASW. The US often replaced the aft tubes with racks of depth charges. I am attempting to find more detailed info, but I'm at a loss...

The best "use" I can describe is in the 1943 propaganda movie "Crash Dive." In the beginning, a PT boat sinks a "German U-Boat" (actually, an American sub was used for underwater shots) with 3 charges and no hydrophones. Then again, this WAS propaganda.

[King_Zog]

Interestingly U-boat hulls seem to be a lot tougher than you'd think. This is from an Admiralty Intelligence report on U-boats published in 1944 in regards to machine gun and cannon fire from aircraft:

"The blister tanks are probably vulnerable to .5 machine gun fire, but even very severe damage to blister tanks will not sink a U-boat. The only vital target for cannon or machine gun fire is the guns' crews and bridge watch."

"There is, however, a case on record in which leaking oil from saddle tanks, penetrated by an aircraft's machine gun fire, was a contributory cause in the subsequent sinking of a U-boat by a surface vessel."

It makes no mention of machine gun or 20mm cannon fire being able to penetrate the pressure hull.

I have however read of one U-boat being forced to return to base after having a large hole blown into its conning tower by a hit from the 57mm cannon of a Mosquito Tse Tse, rendering the boat incapable of diving.

You can read the rest of the report here... it's very detailed and interesting stuff.

http://www.uboatarchive.net/CumulativeEdition.htm

PS As for Elco boats in game, I once sunk three of them with the AA gun in the GWX single mission 'Evacuation'. They didn't really cause me any problems in the mission, although in a campaign I'd probably just dive and avoid them, as I wouldn't want to risk losing one of my bridge crew and they'd just call in reinforcements if any enemy surface or air units were nearby. So not really worth it.