Convoy Tactics Question

[Walruss]

I'm running SH3 commander and GWX3. Heading of for my second patrol in october '39 (already bagged 3 ships on my way in, not even at the patrol zone yet :3 ) But I'm curious as to how well ship visibility is modeled in this mod combo? Can I, for example, lie in wait for a convoy, let it slip around me and then surface in the middle and engage (much like the real thing), or will the merchantmen immediately spot me? Also, how well simulated is ASDIC- will destroyers hear me amongst the merchentmen? Can I wear one as a hat to confuse them? (certainly would prevent depth charging tehehehe ).

What are subsim's anti-convoy tactics?

[Gerald]

Look at this link,if there are something,Otherwise, you can search the top right, in the search box on your ether after

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...t=convoy+tctic

[desirableroasted]

Originally Posted by Walruss

I'm curious as to how well ship visibility is modeled in this mod combo? Can I lie in wait for a convoy, let it slip around me and then surface in the middle and engage , or will the merchantmen immediately spot me? Also, how well simulated is ASDIC- will destroyers hear me amongst the merchentmen? Can I wear one as a hat to confuse them? ().

What are subsim's anti-convoy tactics?

1: Visibility. As a rule of thumb, at anything less than 5000 meters, you should assume they can see you if you can see them. Over 5000, it depends on luck, the sun, haze, how fast you're moving, how choppy the seas are.

2: Lying in wait. It can work, but lying in wait off on one of the forward corners of the convoy, then going into the convoy after the lead escort has passed is safer and more forgiving.

3: Being spotted. The convoy reacts to any of the following. 1) your being spotted by any ship. 2) your torpedo being spotted by any warship (merchants don't notice). 3) a torpedo exploding. 4) your firing a deck gun. At that point, the convoy will begin to "snake" predictably and the escorts will try to attack. Warships in the convoy -- such as a BB or cruiser -- will snake like the merchants. And any armed ship (warships and, increasingly, merchants) will shoot at you.

4: Wearing a hat. It does not confuse them, as the AI ships do not hear one another (nor does seabed clutter confuse them). Nor does it keep them from getting at you, as the AI escorts think nothing of planting themselves in front of a merchant. The merchant stops on a dime, and you do not.

There is a good explanation of anti-convoy tactics toward the end of the GWX 3.0 manual... well worth a read.

[Tom]

I've found that detection range depends very much on weather conditions. Your own speed also has a noticeable effect, as does your aspect towards ships. Wether or not they are actively searching for you has a very big effect. Which means you can get close and not be detected, but once your torpedoes detonate, you may well be detected immediately.

In the worst possible visibility conditions: heavy fog, rain, visibility less than 1000 meters, you can, with some luck, sail on the surface between the rows of merchants in a convoy without them noticing you. Of course, in these conditions, getting inside the convoy without accidentally running into an escort or colliding with a merchant is a risk I'm not personally willing to take. Gathering the required torpedo data for a successful attack is also quite difficult.

I've found the most favorably weather conditions for a surface convoy attack to be moderate seas (6-10 m/s wind), light (possibly medium) fog, overcast, possibly light rain, and night of course, with a visibility of perhaps 4 - 8 km. In these conditions it is quite possible to penetrate a typical early war escort screen (front escort, one escort on each side, possible rear escort), especially if the side escort occasionally moves further from the convoy. Later on in the war, don't even dream about it.

Don't use higher than 1/3 speed, and consider approaching decks awash. You should be able to slip in between the front and side escorts without either of them getting closer than 2500 meters or so. Even so, it is possible they spot you, in which case you have to crash dive and abort the attack. Approaching decks awash makes diving a lot faster.

In these conditions, once you penetrate the escort screen, it is unlikely that the merchants will spot you unless you go closer than 1000 meters, at least until they know you're out there. This allows you to fire your torpedoes at choice targets from just outside the convoy.

After firing your torpedoes, you should try slipping out the rear of the convoy, especially if there is no rear escort. After all, the whole point of a surface attack is to retain the better speed and maneuverability you have on surface and to avoid being hunted alltogether. Be warned, this will not be easy.

Don't move too fast before your torpedoes detonate, as this will give you away. Once the torpedoes hit, the side escort will head straight towards the general position of your attack and everyone will try to spot you. If you had sufficient time to move away (slow torpedo speed, you didn't fire at the nearest ships, but chose juicy targets further inside the convoy instead), you might make it.

I've pulled this off a few times but also failed (had to dive) on several occasions. Pulling off a successful convoy surface attack without having to dive at all is one of the most gratifying achievements one can get with this game.

In better visibility conditions a submerged attack (using the same general attack plan and route) is usually the only option.

[Iranon]

In general, they are slow to notice you but quick to pinpoint your exact location even when that's illogical (e.g. after a long-range shot under the keel)

[Jimbuna]

There is a convoy tactics section in the manual that came with GWX.

[Walruss]

Well, I trialed Otto Kretschmer's tactics of slipping in in the middle of the night between rows- and damn if it wasn't brilliant! I got within 400 meters of several boats, was able to sneak right up to the targets I wanted and align myself with them, fired 3 shots (2 forward to run under an ammunition ship in a self-set spread) and 1 stern to bend to a m31 at a bearing of 135-140ish, then crash dived just behind the merchant, slowed and ran silent at 70 meters with a target depth of DEEP - 130-140 meters. I'm still going down but the escorts have to weave and weave to get at me, with all the merchants around.... oh, and I scored a direct hit with one torp on the ammunition ship and it virtually exploded, loud explosions on the hydrophone, and immediate report of it sinking. About 45 seconds later I got a second impact report, I suspect on the stern shot.... 3 torps, 2 hits... that's bloody good for me. Now back to dodging these aimless destroyers, pics of my approach and the aftermath incoming when I shake 'em.