Adapting the fast 90 proceedure.

[the.terrabyte.pirate]

I'm a big fan of the fast 90 solution. Range is irrelevant, and I hate the stadimeter.

I'm only using it exactly as planned... boat is 90 degrees to the path of the target vessel, peri sits where the gyro angle is 0 degrees, and firing when the juicy parts of the ship passes through the peri view.

I'm wondering if the fast 90 method can still be used for other angled shots?

Ponder... my boat is in front of the target and is facing into it's path of travel at a 45 degree angle. I can still rotate my peri to line up a 90 degree angle over the predicted path of travel, lock in the AOB, then swing my peri back to a gyro angle of 0 degrees. Torp should intersect with target on a 45 degree angle rather than a 90 degree angle.

TDC will automatically adjust AOB and gyroangle as the scope moves, but does this mean that now the changing range as the target approaches me will affect my shot?

In short, is the range of the target irrelevant only on a 90 degree shot, or is it irrelevant as long as the AOB is correct?

Apologies if this is difficult to understand.

[sharkbit]

Yes it will work.

Check out the advanced section of this tutorial:
http://www.paulwasserman.net/SHIII/

It describes exactly what you are talking about.

[Pisces]

No you mixed things up. (yes you can keep whatever angle between your sub and the target course) Actually the range is ONLY irrelevant when the torpedos move on a 0 or 180 (or close enough) gyro angle. It has NOTHING to do with how your boat's course is angled to the target course. It's a misconception that many Kaleuns seem to make in here. Gyro angle makes range a (bigger) issue.

Actually, it is never completely irrelevant since it determines how accurate your speed measurement needs to be. Not because range determines how much the torpedo needs to travel or something like that, but rather how big a target looks in angular size and how much your margin-of-error you have in the lead angle because of that. You don't have to worry about this at near torpedo arm distance. But i.e. most small vessels have a length of 78.5m. At 2 km that is 2.25 degrees wide. Or 1.125d to bow and stern. Let's say you think the target moves 6 knot, and your torpedo 44kts (fast type 1). The lead computes to 7.8 degrees. If the target was actually moving with 7 knots then the torpedo would just miss the stern, or the bow if the target moved at 5 knots. Such a faulty measurement is easily possible if you rely on a single 3m15s pair of plots.

The beauty of the fast 90 is in easily setting AOB (scope to front/back and set AOB to 90, assuming you got the target course correct), AND that the target shows it's broadside to you when it passes in front of you. It presents it's largest size to you. It's attempts to avoid your torpedo by zigzagging are doomed to fail because the small amount it changes course doesn't make it any smaller. (If it speeds up or slows down on a dime, then it is effective in avoiding though)

If your torpedo has to turn, and meet a specific point, Range becomes very important.
It's a harder shot, but quite do-able.

[desirableroasted]

Originally Posted by Snestorm

If your torpedo has to turn, and meet a specific point, Range becomes very important.
It's a harder shot, but quite do-able.

I probably should have asked this years ago, but does the weapons officer take gyro angle into account when making his solution?

I realize it's a much harder shot to make, because of the gyro angle. But I am wondering if he is even thinking about it?

[Pisces]

The weapon officer determines (after consultations with God )the AOB as it looks from where you are, the bearing and speed and range. After that the TDC calculates (automatically) how much the torpedo needs to turn to hit it, based on how you turn the periscope/UZO. Except, the TDC cannot update the range as the target closes with you, so you (or the weapon officer) needs to reset it before firing after a long wait. The weapon officer doesn't have to worry about the gyro angle itself. It's the end result.

[desirableroasted]

Originally Posted by Pisces

The weapon officer determines (after consultations with God )the AOB as it looks from where you are, the bearing and speed and range. After that the TDC calculates (automatically) how much the torpedo needs to turn to hit it, based on how you turn the periscope/UZO. Except, the TDC cannot update the range as the target closes with you, so you (or the weapon officer) needs to reset it before firing after a long wait. The weapon officer doesn't have to worry about the gyro angle itself. It's the end result.

God? I need a new Weps. My Weps juggles a little cup of bird bones then spills them out on the table.

That said, if I have a valid solution from Weps, an accurate gyro angle, accurate range, tube open on the side wouldn't shooting from an angle be pretty reliable? Or is some sort of "uncertainty" modeled into higher gyro angles.

This is not an urgent question; it's just a nuance of the game I am interested in.

[Pisces]

Originally Posted by desirableroasted

..
That said, if I have a valid solution from Weps, an accurate gyro angle, accurate range, tube open on the side wouldn't shooting from an angle be pretty reliable? Or is some sort of "uncertainty" modeled into higher gyro angles. ...

I'm not sure. The game documentation implies this iirc, but I haven't noticed it much. It could be that the torpedo makes a bigger or smaller turn than it was ordered to do. It should be possible to test this. Just fire a torpedo at a large gyro angle (who needs a real target!?!) and make a series of screendump of the attack screen as the torpedo follows it's course. Then measure it's screen-coordinates in the image. If you know your exact heading then it's possible to compare the given gyro angle to the real torpedo course. (line through the coordinates in the image) But I don't feel like I want to bother.

[Capt. Morgan]

Originally Posted by the.terrabyte.pirate

...I'm wondering if the fast 90 method can still be used for other angled shots?...

Sorta. Have you seen this post?
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=204

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by desirableroasted

God? I need a new Weps. My Weps juggles a little cup of bird bones then spills them out on the table.

Mine claims he has to sacrifice a live goat and examine its entrails. Do you have any idea of the way people look at you when you try to requisition 14 live goats? Well, I do. It's no wonder I went back to auto-targeting.

(That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.)

Originally Posted by desirableroasted

I probably should have asked this years ago, but does the weapons officer take gyro angle into account when making his solution?

I realize it's a much harder shot to make, because of the gyro angle. But I am wondering if he is even thinking about it?

Haven't used the weapons officer in so long, there is probably much I have forgotten.

If I remember right, when firing a torpedo at a target on an opposite course to your own (90 degree shot - best to use the stern tube(s)) the TDC could not keep up with the rapidly changing situation. I got better results after going full manual, and presetting my scope at the firing point, then waiting for the target to enter my crosshairs.

(As I play "No Parking", this is the only method available to my boats when attacking from inside the convoy, and not getting run over. Although it's an easier shot to roll with the convoy, using bow tubes, I find it harder to keep from getting run over, and keep track of the enemy course.)