Getting ships heading from ruler question

Biggen · 06-01-10, 08:29 AM

Still trying to get the hang of this darn sim!

Lets see if I can explain the problem I am having without too many words.

When I take several bearings on a ship at 3:15 intervals I want to draw a line straight through them all in order to get the ships bearing. This seems simple enough and, as far as I can tell, this is the only way to determine a ships bearing. However, when I select the ruler tool and click on the first first bearing point I marked earlier, the whole lines turns red and I'm unable to draw through to my second bearing. In fact, when my orginal line turns red and I hold down the left mouse key, the entire bearing line moves which totally screws up the entire procedure. I have to make sure that I am not on top of my first bearing point in order to use the ruler tool for this purpose which means selecting above or below an original point.

Is this correct or am I doing something wrong? Seems to me I should be able to simply click anywhere I want on the map to take measurements even if where I click already has some "point" on it I marked earlier.

Also, is using the ruler tool the best way to determine a ships heading? I am currently using Manos GuI which I am still trying to figure out. I still don't know where the AoB dial is as it doesn't appear to be on the TDC map. At least, if it is there, it doesn't look like the old AoB dial from stock SH3.

Right now, I'm just trying to get used to "shadowing" a ship while trying to figure out everything else. I figure if I can figure out a ships heading and speed, I can then run parrellel and that gives me time to do everything else.

Pisces · 06-01-10, 11:21 AM

Yes, when you start a line to make the target's track through the points you shouldn't start it exactly on the point. But slightly before or after it. It turns red because the game thinks you want to adjust one endpoint of a line you have allready placed. Just make sure that the line passes through the points in the end, no matter where the endpoints are. And you want to extend the future end of it, not stop it at the last plotted point.

But in reality the uncertainty of the measurement is much bigger anyway. You really ought to mark those points with circles of several 100m in size. The watchofficer readouts are way to precise.

I haven't got personal experience in using Manos Gui yet. (I want to but I'm still on patrol) But based on these images it should be on the attackscope and TDC panel:

http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/h.../attackmap.jpg

http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/h...man94/1-28.jpg

Maybe the panel is hidden with the button above-right of the text panel. That's how it is done with the OLC Gui.

Biggen · 06-01-10, 12:10 PM

Take a look at: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...alibration.jpg

That is the stock gui with the AoB labeled. Now take a look at:

http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/h.../attackmap.jpg

Which dial in the Manos gui is supposed to be the AoB? Is it the second from the far left (the one with the red/green on the dial?)

The second from the left dial in the Manos is labeled bearing in the stock GUI.

I think I am going to go back to the stock gui until I get a better handle on things...

Hook · 06-01-10, 03:18 PM

I usually mark the end points of the lines with the pencil tool, then delete the lines. No problems with moving lines then when you try to draw a line from the first point.

Actually, if you're getting the bearings from the WO, the first point is often fairly inaccurate. The bearing should be right, but the range might be off by one or two hundred meters. Later sightings are more accurate, and I usually ignore the first one if it's not on line with the rest.

Hook

makman94 · 06-01-10, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggen

When I take several bearings on a ship at 3:15 intervals.....

hi Biggen,

this thing with the ''3:15'' is just for some fast speed calculations. it is not recommended to use 3:15 intervals for getting speed,the longer the time between bearings ...the more acurate your speed calculations will be

Quote:

I want to draw a line straight through them all in order to get the ships bearing. This seems simple enough and, as far as I can tell, this is the only way to determine a ships bearing. However, when I select the ruler tool and click on the first first bearing point I marked earlier, the whole lines turns red and I'm unable to draw through to my second bearing. In fact, when my orginal line turns red and I hold down the left mouse key, the entire bearing line moves which totally screws up the entire procedure. I have to make sure that I am not on top of my first bearing point in order to use the ruler tool for this purpose which means selecting above or below an original point.

Is this correct or am I doing something wrong? Seems to me I should be able to simply click anywhere I want on the map to take measurements even if where I click already has some "point" on it I marked earlier.

when you put on navmap your bearing line then add a mark at the end of it and one at the start of it (where your sub supposed to be when you draw the line and delete the bearing line (you don't need it anymore and even if you need it ,for some reason ,you will be able to draw it again with the help of marks). the fact that you can't start a new line from the edge of a current one is a sh3's limitation that can't be avoided.

Quote:

Also, is using the ruler tool the best way to determine a ships heading?

once you have drawn target's course either put the center of ruler on any point of target's line and read the heading ( this tool is reversed so read the course from the opposite side of target's heading) or place the center of compass tool (this is not reversed) on target's line and read the heading from the actual heading of target

Quote:

I am currently using Manos GuI which I am still trying to figure out. I still don't know where the AoB dial is as it doesn't appear to be on the TDC map. At least, if it is there, it doesn't look like the old AoB dial from stock SH3.

the aob dial is the second one (from the left). it doesn't look like the old AOB dial becuase the devs have made a fault on the designs for bearing and aob dials . the real aob dial is the one that had the 'cut' showing the ''10ths''(not the bearing's dial) and it is exactly as you see it in MaGui (Hitman was the first who 'catched' this innacuracy and if you look at some real tdc photos you will see that Hitman is right)

Biggen · 06-01-10, 06:42 PM

@Pisces and Hook
I decided to simply just mark them with the pencil. Was looking on youtube and it looks like this was a popular way of doing it. I had no idea on how the map updates until I started pulling the periscope down after a quick mark. So cool how the ships disappear from the map when the scope is down. I was under the assumption they would stay there!

Then I used the ruler to draw between them in order to figure out a course. Throw in the "3:15" rule between two of those marks and I also can figure out the speed as well. Sweet!!

@Makman94

Awesome Gui and environment mod! I am still getting used to the GUI but it is coming together I think. Thanks for clearing up the AoB dial for me. You will be happy to know that I just sunk my first tanker (in the torpedo training exercise) using your GUI and it was all with manual targeting

Pisces · 06-02-10, 10:38 AM

I suggest using the 13 minute rule, and divide by 4. 3m15s, 6m30s, 9m45s, 13m0s.

The stopwatch slower hand doesn't go beyond 12 minutes, and then just one run around from the seconds-hand. You'll need that quarter knot preciscion for shots a bit further out. Well, when you're up for it, ofcourse.

It also teaches you to be patient.

Also, with the CTRL button in combination with the up/down buttons for the respective periscopes they go all the way automatically. So you do not need to wait until they go below the surface to start plotting.

comet61 · 06-02-10, 01:44 PM

You can also use the compass and arrow within as a temp line. You can also use the compass and protractor tool to get a rough course using the WO reports if surfaced (he calls out range and bearing). But remember, there is a margin of error if the seas are rough and the target is zig-zag'ing.

Magui3.3 has new tools using bearing charts and firing angles if speed and course are known. Tried it last night. It worked. Just need more practice.

Kpt. Weyprecht · 06-02-10, 02:35 PM

I haven't tried Mano's GUI yet (actually RL and hardware problems have been keeping me away from the game for some time) but if you have difficulties with plotting directly on the SH3 nav map, you may want to try Aaronblood's MoBo. It's really a powerful tool which ables you to perform much more advanced plotting than the game's mav map. Note that using relative plot technique (long time ago someone figured out how to do it without enther MoBo or a paper maneuvering board, but I can't find the link) keeps accurate even if you don't know your own position very precisely, as in OLC's GUI where the oznship mark disappears when you zoom the map in. Also, there are several tutorials in the MoBo thread that may be useful even if you don't stick to the actual tool.

06-01-10, 08:29 AM	#1
Biggen Watch Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 16 Downloads: 12 Uploads: 0	Getting ships heading from ruler question Still trying to get the hang of this darn sim! Lets see if I can explain the problem I am having without too many words. When I take several bearings on a ship at 3:15 intervals I want to draw a line straight through them all in order to get the ships bearing. This seems simple enough and, as far as I can tell, this is the only way to determine a ships bearing. However, when I select the ruler tool and click on the first first bearing point I marked earlier, the whole lines turns red and I'm unable to draw through to my second bearing. In fact, when my orginal line turns red and I hold down the left mouse key, the entire bearing line moves which totally screws up the entire procedure. I have to make sure that I am not on top of my first bearing point in order to use the ruler tool for this purpose which means selecting above or below an original point. Is this correct or am I doing something wrong? Seems to me I should be able to simply click anywhere I want on the map to take measurements even if where I click already has some "point" on it I marked earlier. Also, is using the ruler tool the best way to determine a ships heading? I am currently using Manos GuI which I am still trying to figure out. I still don't know where the AoB dial is as it doesn't appear to be on the TDC map. At least, if it is there, it doesn't look like the old AoB dial from stock SH3. Right now, I'm just trying to get used to "shadowing" a ship while trying to figure out everything else. I figure if I can figure out a ships heading and speed, I can then run parrellel and that gives me time to do everything else.

06-01-10, 11:21 AM	#2
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	Yes, when you start a line to make the target's track through the points you shouldn't start it exactly on the point. But slightly before or after it. It turns red because the game thinks you want to adjust one endpoint of a line you have allready placed. Just make sure that the line passes through the points in the end, no matter where the endpoints are. And you want to extend the future end of it, not stop it at the last plotted point. But in reality the uncertainty of the measurement is much bigger anyway. You really ought to mark those points with circles of several 100m in size. The watchofficer readouts are way to precise. I haven't got personal experience in using Manos Gui yet. (I want to but I'm still on patrol) But based on these images it should be on the attackscope and TDC panel: http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/h.../attackmap.jpg http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/h...man94/1-28.jpg Maybe the panel is hidden with the button above-right of the text panel. That's how it is done with the OLC Gui. __________________ My site downloads: https://ricojansen.nl/downloads

06-02-10, 10:38 AM	#7
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	I suggest using the 13 minute rule, and divide by 4. 3m15s, 6m30s, 9m45s, 13m0s. The stopwatch slower hand doesn't go beyond 12 minutes, and then just one run around from the seconds-hand. You'll need that quarter knot preciscion for shots a bit further out. Well, when you're up for it, ofcourse. It also teaches you to be patient. Also, with the CTRL button in combination with the up/down buttons for the respective periscopes they go all the way automatically. So you do not need to wait until they go below the surface to start plotting. __________________ My site downloads: https://ricojansen.nl/downloads

06-02-10, 01:44 PM	#8
comet61 Sparky Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 151 Downloads: 240 Uploads: 0	tools You can also use the compass and arrow within as a temp line. You can also use the compass and protractor tool to get a rough course using the WO reports if surfaced (he calls out range and bearing). But remember, there is a margin of error if the seas are rough and the target is zig-zag'ing. Magui3.3 has new tools using bearing charts and firing angles if speed and course are known. Tried it last night. It worked. Just need more practice.

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06-01-10, 12:10 PM	#3
Biggen Watch Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 16 Downloads: 12 Uploads: 0	Take a look at: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...alibration.jpg That is the stock gui with the AoB labeled. Now take a look at: http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/h.../attackmap.jpg Which dial in the Manos gui is supposed to be the AoB? Is it the second from the far left (the one with the red/green on the dial?) The second from the left dial in the Manos is labeled bearing in the stock GUI. I think I am going to go back to the stock gui until I get a better handle on things...

06-01-10, 03:18 PM	#4
Hook Bosun Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 63 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I usually mark the end points of the lines with the pencil tool, then delete the lines. No problems with moving lines then when you try to draw a line from the first point. Actually, if you're getting the bearings from the WO, the first point is often fairly inaccurate. The bearing should be right, but the range might be off by one or two hundred meters. Later sightings are more accurate, and I usually ignore the first one if it's not on line with the rest. Hook

06-01-10, 06:42 PM	#6
Biggen Watch Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 16 Downloads: 12 Uploads: 0	@Pisces and Hook I decided to simply just mark them with the pencil. Was looking on youtube and it looks like this was a popular way of doing it. I had no idea on how the map updates until I started pulling the periscope down after a quick mark. So cool how the ships disappear from the map when the scope is down. I was under the assumption they would stay there! Then I used the ruler to draw between them in order to figure out a course. Throw in the "3:15" rule between two of those marks and I also can figure out the speed as well. Sweet!! @Makman94 Awesome Gui and environment mod! I am still getting used to the GUI but it is coming together I think. Thanks for clearing up the AoB dial for me. You will be happy to know that I just sunk my first tanker (in the torpedo training exercise) using your GUI and it was all with manual targeting

06-02-10, 02:35 PM	#9
Kpt. Weyprecht Gunner Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Paris, France Posts: 97 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 0	I haven't tried Mano's GUI yet (actually RL and hardware problems have been keeping me away from the game for some time) but if you have difficulties with plotting directly on the SH3 nav map, you may want to try Aaronblood's MoBo. It's really a powerful tool which ables you to perform much more advanced plotting than the game's mav map. Note that using relative plot technique (long time ago someone figured out how to do it without enther MoBo or a paper maneuvering board, but I can't find the link) keeps accurate even if you don't know your own position very precisely, as in OLC's GUI where the oznship mark disappears when you zoom the map in. Also, there are several tutorials in the MoBo thread that may be useful even if you don't stick to the actual tool.