Armadillo

Skybird · 05-20-10, 05:10 PM

A movie that seems to show faces of war that you do not get shown in the glossy news on Fox and CNN. the film made an appearance in Cannes, immediately rose controversy, and seems to get discussed passionately in Denmark. The camera followed a unit of Danish elite soldiers in Afghanistan. the result in video material appears like a description of how war turns men into dogs. and that is very much a challenge to the Danish - and Western - self-definition and understanding of what one believes to do over there.

The trailer - in English - can be seen in the video box in the middle of the article.

http://www.fr-online.de/top_news/266...eschichte.html

Quote:

"It's not help them. This does not help a damn thing!"

I do not engage in the political controversy unfolding, I still have not seen the movie. I just think it is a good film of documentary character, showing not so much the Afghanistan war in full scale and reach, but what war does with people - even if these people see themselves as shining heroes.

Krieg vertiert. (Egon Bahr)

Happy Times · 05-20-10, 05:46 PM

War to man is as natural as eating and sleeping.
We live in tribes and there will never be world peace, the strongest will survive.
Period.

GoldenRivet · 05-20-10, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Times

War to man is as natural as eating and sleeping.
We live in tribes and there will never be world peace, the strongest will survive.
Period.

agreed

Skybird · 05-20-10, 06:02 PM

that may be true or not, but it does not change a thing in that war does not enoble men, but turns out the worst in them.

Is war natural? Yes and no. It's mankind's most favourite hobby. It's also an exoistential need people have met very often. And still it takes considerable ammounts of time, tricks and manipulation, and last but not least: deadening senses/minds/scruples, to make young men agreeing to committing deeds of war, like killing othee humans.

It sounds way too loose the way you put it, Happy Times.

CaptainHaplo · 05-20-10, 06:48 PM

War brings out both the worst and best in men. To say otherwise - well - its easy to do if you have never been there. I agree it can bring out an ugly vileness that is hardly recognizable. It can also bring out the most self sacrificing, giving care that you can imagine.

The reality is that war is ugly - and thus it takes men willing to get their hands dirty to fight it. If your fighting a war fairly - your not fighting to win. War is a life or death struggle. Win or die.... with those stakes on the line, unless you have been under fire - you have no concept of what it is like. And cannot - no matter how you intellectually examine it.

Its not the bullet with your name on it that you have to worry about....
Its all the ones marked "To Whom It May Concern" that always worried me. But worrying isn't going to stop them from flying - what will is putting an end to the guy firing them.......

Sailor Steve · 05-20-10, 06:59 PM

^ What he said.

Skybird · 05-21-10, 02:36 AM

I think this is not about how wars should be fought, nor is the movie about that. It is also not about war being or being not a natural thing. The results of war, however, are certainly not natural at all. Brutalization, PTS, crippling are things existing, they are real, yes - but they are no "natural" things. They are a perversion.

It is about how witnessing war and doing in war sometimes slowly, sometimes quickly, deadens your soul, and silently kills it.

Results like the Abu Ghraib photo-takers, PTS syndrome long after having returned home, gunners shooting at farmers for fun, from onboard a passing helicopter, or tank crews enjoying to blowing up stuff to the sound of heavy metal over the intercom, are the results.

War destroys even the best men you send into battle, sooner or later. In some people you can just see a display of changed behavior, they are becoming loud and rude and boast with how much killing they have done and they become eager to do it again, and possibly in some this behavior is not even real, but just a facade. In other people you just see a certain empty gaze from their eyes, as if something has hollowed them out.

However. The movie should be displayed at the cinema sooner or later.

05-21-10, 04:32 AM

Quote:

War brings out both the worst and best in men. To say otherwise - well - its easy to do if you have never been there. I agree it can bring out an ugly vileness that is hardly recognizable. It can also bring out the most self sacrificing, giving care that you can imagine.

A prime example would be Johnson Beharry who got awarded the Victoria Cross for his self sacrificing efforts giving care to his comrades.
On the other hand he tried to kill himself in 2008 because he couldn't get over his experiences in Iraq and felt he couldn't live with them anymore.

Quote:

War to man is as natural as eating and sleeping.

If war was as natural to man as eating and sleeping then men wouldn't be getting very screwed up mentally by war.

Jimbuna · 05-21-10, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

War brings out both the worst and best in men. To say otherwise - well - its easy to do if you have never been there. I agree it can bring out an ugly vileness that is hardly recognizable. It can also bring out the most self sacrificing, giving care that you can imagine.

The reality is that war is ugly - and thus it takes men willing to get their hands dirty to fight it. If your fighting a war fairly - your not fighting to win. War is a life or death struggle. Win or die.... with those stakes on the line, unless you have been under fire - you have no concept of what it is like. And cannot - no matter how you intellectually examine it.

Its not the bullet with your name on it that you have to worry about....
Its all the ones marked "To Whom It May Concern" that always worried me. But worrying isn't going to stop them from flying - what will is putting an end to the guy firing them.......

Precisely

05-20-10, 05:46 PM	#2
Happy Times Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 2,950 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	War to man is as natural as eating and sleeping. We live in tribes and there will never be world peace, the strongest will survive. Period. __________________

05-20-10, 06:02 PM	#4
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,603 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	that may be true or not, but it does not change a thing in that war does not enoble men, but turns out the worst in them. Is war natural? Yes and no. It's mankind's most favourite hobby. It's also an exoistential need people have met very often. And still it takes considerable ammounts of time, tricks and manipulation, and last but not least: deadening senses/minds/scruples, to make young men agreeing to committing deeds of war, like killing othee humans. It sounds way too loose the way you put it, Happy Times. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

05-20-10, 06:48 PM	#5
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	War brings out both the worst and best in men. To say otherwise - well - its easy to do if you have never been there. I agree it can bring out an ugly vileness that is hardly recognizable. It can also bring out the most self sacrificing, giving care that you can imagine. The reality is that war is ugly - and thus it takes men willing to get their hands dirty to fight it. If your fighting a war fairly - your not fighting to win. War is a life or death struggle. Win or die.... with those stakes on the line, unless you have been under fire - you have no concept of what it is like. And cannot - no matter how you intellectually examine it. Its not the bullet with your name on it that you have to worry about.... Its all the ones marked "To Whom It May Concern" that always worried me. But worrying isn't going to stop them from flying - what will is putting an end to the guy firing them....... __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

05-20-10, 06:59 PM	#6
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	^ What he said. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

05-21-10, 02:36 AM	#7
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,603 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I think this is not about how wars should be fought, nor is the movie about that. It is also not about war being or being not a natural thing. The results of war, however, are certainly not natural at all. Brutalization, PTS, crippling are things existing, they are real, yes - but they are no "natural" things. They are a perversion. It is about how witnessing war and doing in war sometimes slowly, sometimes quickly, deadens your soul, and silently kills it. Results like the Abu Ghraib photo-takers, PTS syndrome long after having returned home, gunners shooting at farmers for fun, from onboard a passing helicopter, or tank crews enjoying to blowing up stuff to the sound of heavy metal over the intercom, are the results. War destroys even the best men you send into battle, sooner or later. In some people you can just see a display of changed behavior, they are becoming loud and rude and boast with how much killing they have done and they become eager to do it again, and possibly in some this behavior is not even real, but just a facade. In other people you just see a certain empty gaze from their eyes, as if something has hollowed them out. However. The movie should be displayed at the cinema sooner or later. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

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