[HELP] The ruler tool

[archer9]

I have noticed that the ruler tool in SH3 is very unprecise. So the manual TDC thing often goes wrong... Has the Subsim community found any solutions for this problem? Sorry, I'm having difficulties with finding stuff in these forums.

[Paul Riley]

Give an example of what you need to do with the ruler and the problems you are having with it,we would have something to work on then
Range to target for example?

[archer9]

I read in a tutorial once (can't remember whose), that one must substract 50 meters from the ruler measurment for it to be precise, because there is a bug involving incorrect ruler values. I have just recently began to play with manual plotting and all... So I might make mistakes even without this bug. So is there no mod/tweak to fix this?

Basically what I use the ruler for is when measuring the distance from sub to the target. (After measuring the distance to the ship with the help of the scope I need to draw a line on the map which represents the distance to the ship). And that is kind of a problem to me because of the ruler.

[Pisces]

There is nothing wrong with that 50 meter thing. It's just that the length value is rounded up before displaying it. 5.74 km in length becomes 5.7km as value and 5.66km as length becomes 5.7km as value. On average the measurment errors will be displace symmetrically around every full tenth (x.x0 km) If the fractional part would be truncated (5.79km would become 5.70), then it would be wrong! The average of error would be hanging around x.x5 km but you'll see x.x0 as value. Zoom in deep on the map and you'll get a 50m grid and try it out by comparing lengths. And 50 meters more or less isn't going to matter in terms of distances of several kilometers. There are allready 20 parts of 50m in a kilometer. That is 5%, and only get's lower as the distance increases.

Even then 50 meters 'inaccuracy' is nitpicking in practise. (Yes you heard it from me. I'm a champion in nitpicking.) The Watch Officer reporting in 100m is allready pushing it. Especially since rumour has it that most of the targeting was done by gu-estimating.

Archer9 do you mean something like this?:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=1308

[archer9]

Ok, alright, I get it. But no, that is not what I was looking for. Here I'l give you an example:



You see it shows that the distance is 100 meters although the actual lenght is 50 meters. So what I want is a ruler which shows the EXACT correct values. I've had no moding experience with SH3 at all. But looking at all the wonderful mods you guys have made, adjusting ruler values wouldn't seem too hard to be done. Would it?


Ok, it might seem nitpicking to you. But here is why it is so important to me. I always like to get into a perfect position before launching torpedoes. That means 90 degree angle. To do that I MUST know the exact course of the target. Which means drawing a straight line connecting the 3:15 marks. But because I'm a noob and the ruler "problem" I often get false results which means I can't get a straight line... And that is a problem. Especially when my speed barely exceeds the enemy ship's speed. Which means I'll have to race him for quite a distance. (That would of course involve time compression.) That means I can easily lose the target if the course is not corect. Even 50 meters can make a huge difference in a long run.

[Fader_Berg]

There are no such mod, and I doubt there will be one, since it's in the code and cannot be changed. (Well, not with ease anyway...)

There is nothing like a perfect position or exact distance. Like Pisces said, the WO can be 100 meters off to begin with, (which must be considered quite accurate at a distance of 4000 meters). Estimates are all you've got.
Each and every measurement will and can not be exact. But by doing a whole bunch of them, you can end up with a course pretty close to exact. They might not show up in a straight line off course, but you can still draw a stright line that averages your marks. That's what its all about. Two or three marks will not do it. You'll have to make ten or twenty. By doing so, the WOs 100 and the rulers 50 meters off, doesn't make any significant difference.

Sometimes you ain't got the time it takes to get a fair course of the target. That's how life is. You'll have to gamble a bit or wait for a better opportunity. In a Type II you can rule out the gambling.

[makman94]

actually there is an accurate ruler . here : [REL] Improved Malloy's Ruler

@Archer9 : you will find the instructions of how to use it inside its .rar
you can use it at any scale of navmap but the most comfort scale is the 0-500m of map . study carefully the readme and you will figure out that the tool can be used at any scale with the proper attention at the divisions of map's scale

@Fader_Berg : you are drawing lines on paper and not at sea !
if i give you a ruler and a paper and ask you to draw a 16,85 cm long line ...you can't do it with extreme accuracy ? it is the same thing ! Navigator officer has a ruler and a paper and wants to draw a 20cm long line....why not to be able to it with extreme accuracy ?

If you don't trust the ruler, use the compass.

[Fader_Berg]

Originally Posted by makman94

@Fader_Berg : you are drawing lines on paper and not at sea !
if i give you a ruler and a paper and ask you to draw a 16,85 cm long line ...you can't do it with extreme accuracy ? it is the same thing ! Navigator officer has a ruler and a paper and wants to draw a 20cm long line....why not to be able to it with extreme accuracy ?

Well, one might want to draw lines with extreme accuracy just for the sake of it. I didn't think of that.
However, if I had a ruler that made it possible for me to draw a line down to nanometer precision. I would not use it to that extent, since you told me just to be within a tenth of a milimeter.
What I'm trying to say is, that he'll be well off with the existing ruler. Since he will not get any data to work with, that makes the more accuracy worthwhile. Not in practikal use, anyway.

[archer9]

Okay, thanks for your attention guys.

@makman94, your tool seems to do the job... more or less. But it's not exactly how I wanted it. And on longer distances it becomes quite hard to match the distance with the correct bearing. Anyway, I think I'll stick to the stock ruler. I guess I just need more practise with it.


edit: Oh, and another thing! I will not make another topic for a single question, so here it goes - how do you manually use hydrophone? Might sound noobish, but I've tried everything and I just can't figure it out. I'm asking because when I ask sonarman to report on nearest contact he often replies that there is no contact.

[Pisces]

I can relate very well on feeling the need for preciscion. Been there, done that ... but thankfully its wearing off. It's a hard pill to swallow but worrying about it just takes too long, and too much stress wich doesn't get you much further. But don't let me stop you trying to attain it.

As for the picture. Those length numbers are not going change due to a mod. They are hardcoded. Yes it shows 100m but it also shows that when it is accros upto 3 gridsquares of 50m wide. In other words it shows 0.1 between 0.05km and 0.15km. The number flips over nicely at the 50m pixel due to rounding off.

For hydrophone use go to the station yourself with the 'H' key. There is a button on it that ups the volume a bit. Just click it when the tooltip shows. You'll have to move the needle yourself. You can hear sounds that are alot further away than your crew does. You can hear upto about 34km radius. (crew only 18km or 20km or so) If you want to know the correct bearing listen to the sides where the sound is barely audible and use the middle of it. It's too difficult to determine where the peak volume is. But you'll find out you can still be sometimes 1 or 2 degrees wrong.

As for technique:


http://www.filefront.com/14186971/Hy...on.part01.rar/

(for some reason I keep loosing the thread about this movie, you'll have to search for it)

[archer9]

Thanks, Pisces. Hydrophone works great and already on the first patrol I found it very useful! :]

[makman94]

hello,

@Pisces: yes,i agree that we don't need an extreme acurate ruler at long distances when plotting the first sighted target ,although will do no harm to had an acurate ruler.i just can't understand why devs continues to 'keep' this stock buggy ruler.at sh5 is even worst....

@Fader_Berg : the ''16,85'' was only an example to tell you that you can do it on paper even with that level of acuracy if you want . of course and i agree with you,we don't need that level of acuracy for the game...no need of demicals at all . but i would like a ruler to be able to draw a line which is representing a 1470m distance and Maloy's ruler can do that

@Archer9: this ruler is not a tool made by me.the original author is Maloy ...i only added the external bearing degrees at it . at long distances ,first you calculate the relative to north bearing and then you grap the ruler.i don't say that this is the ruler i wanted to have but given the current status...this ruler,afaik, is the only way to mark your target on map with accuracy(i thought that was your request at op) . of course this ruler is a compromise and i know that you have to get used to it .
the main use of this ruler is to use it when you want to mark your target with acuracy at short distances based on your measurments through peri.of course, the BEST would be,imo, to have a MARK button at peri page...see here : Manual Plot

but devs 'seems' that are not 'listening' to our small community so...compromises will always exist

[Fader_Berg]

Originally Posted by makman94

@Fader_Berg : the ''16,85'' was only an example to tell you that you can do it on paper even with that level of acuracy if you want . of course and i agree with you,we don't need that level of acuracy for the game...no need of demicals at all . but i would like a ruler to be able to draw a line which is representing a 1470m distance and Maloy's ruler can do that

I made an example too. All in-data you can get in this game, got a precision way out of what you want to achieve. It's not a question of what you need, but what you can get. There is no need to bother about nanometers when the closest I can get is within a tenth of a millimeter.

[archer9]

Hi, back from hunting! This time I have several questions unreleated to the title of this thread, but I thought I should not litter your forums. So here we go:

1. What does Sending patrol/contact reports do? Does it have any benefits at all?

2. About the captain's log. Is there any way to allow me to write it manually? Because by default it is kind of dull and boring. Reading old logs written by myself would later bring back pleasant memories about patrols. In stead of boring facts about the tonnage sunk.

3. About the awards. Is there any system by which I recieve medals? Because I think they are given away randomly... I recieved the knights cross with golden leaves and swords for a patrol in which I didn't sink a single ship! How's that? But then when I manage to sink some 5-6 ships, I get nothing!

4. Can ships somehow detect incoming torpedos? Because sometimes I see ships evading G7e torpedo, although it has no visible trace on the surface. Or maybe it was just a coincidence?