Wikipedia excommunicates Church of Scientology

[SUBMAN1]

It's about time.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-10252473-71.html

-S

[Torplexed]

Hmmm. I have a vision of an enraged Tom Cruise doing a frustrated jig on his laptop with steel-toed shoes.

[Skybird]

Again, scientology is currently being sued in France, beside Germany the second heavy-weight enemy of scientology in Europe. Since it is a a very profane profit-oriented finance-enterprise, selling sectarianism, psychological exploitation and dependance, for the purpose of ripping of their customers and infiltrating public education and the leadership of the economy, in France and several other European countries it is not recognised as a religion, and thus is not protected by the French state as religions are (time and again they are involved in criminal investigations against them in several countries, and in Germany they are under constant surveillance by the Verfassungsschutz/office for the preotection of the constitution).

The new French case is expected to run over several years if they are found guilty, since the company without doubt will battle through all courts until the bitter end. But if sentenced, this time scientology finally could be completely banned in France, forcing it to officially dissolve itself in France and being prohibited to operate in France again.

En avant, France!

What's next? Roman Catholicism, because they believe bread and wine are transmutated into the body and blood of Christ? Personally I try to give religious groups much leway until they start physically harming those who donnot believe as they do.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

What's next? Roman Catholicism, because they believe bread and wine are transmutated into the body and blood of Christ? Personally I try to give religious groups much leway until they start physically harming those who donnot believe as they do.

They didn't banish them over their beliefs. They were banned due to their editing of pages to reflect their views rather than sticking with the facts.

Originally Posted by Aramike

They didn't banish them over their beliefs. They were banned due to their editing of pages to reflect their views rather than sticking with the facts.

That sounds like wiki in general, does it not? Since anyone can edit wiki pages it is all suspect. Am I in error on this?

[Skybird]

Ron Hubbard founded as much a religion as did Reverend Jones. If Scientology is a religion, then the mass suicide and murder at Jonestown was a Holy Mass.

Both are/were inhuman psycho-sects. How credulous must one be to give them a status of being a "religion" just because they snap and yell aggressively. That is hilarious. And most nations seem to think so. That's why many nations do not accept them to fall under the protection for free religious practice. That the US accepts them, does not speak for the US, but against them.

Scientology is a brainwashing psycho-sect that runs a capitalistic money-oriented business, and this often in violation of basic human rights and national laws. It tries to maximise financial exploitation, keep members in increasing psychic dependance, and is trying to turn people into slaves that only work to spend even more of their earned money for scientology. You know what a snowball-mail system is. Itz is not much different with scientzology, just that the snowballing effect is in the individuals' mind, represented by growing psychic dependency and financial sacrifice and ripping-off normal members up to total personal bancruptcy, until all their social life, family and job world has collapsed and they are all scientiology's property. That they treat celebrities nicley, does not mean anything, and is just public relations to attract more new people. It is just shine and lie.

These people are extremely dangerous, why can't some people just don't see that and want to protect and support them. They are everything that you do not want your children falling victim to.

Ooops - I just have had a deja vu. Could it be that we have had threads on this matter before...?

Why scientology claims to be a religion: for making more money and to benefit from tax reliefs:
http://members.chello.nl/mgormez/boo..._sky/bs3-5.htm

Scientology Lies:
http://members.chello.nl/mgormez/boo..._sky/bs3-5.htm

"You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion." - A multiple-witnessed quote by Ron Hubbard, former mediocre SF-author and later founder of scientology.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

That sounds like wiki in general, does it not? Since anyone can edit wiki pages it is all suspect. Am I in error on this?

Yes and no.
It may be open to be edited by any individual, but it is moderated by the community.

It is undoubtedly more accurate than any paper encyclopedia, but less accurate than some
more primary info sources.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

That sounds like wiki in general, does it not? Since anyone can edit wiki pages it is all suspect. Am I in error on this?

There's a difference between individuals making page edits and an entire organization doing so with the singular goal of promoting their faux-religion.

Individual scientologists will still be able to edit pages like anyone else - the organization, however, won't be able to.

Originally Posted by Aramike

There's a difference between individuals making page edits and an entire organization doing so with the singular goal of promoting their faux-religion.

Individual scientologists will still be able to edit pages like anyone else - the organization, however, won't be able to.

I have yet to see an organisation which wasn't made up of individuals. I don't mean to be snide but I think this is wrong minded. I think, although I'm not sure, the decision is based on government pressue. Specifically German and French governments which cannot derive money from Scientology, like it can from Catholicism and Protestantism.

I'm very cynical when it comes to the gov't v. religion angle.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

I have yet to see an organisation which wasn't made up of individuals. I don't mean to be snide but I think this is wrong minded. I think, although I'm not sure, the decision is based on government pressue. Specifically German and French governments which cannot derive money from Scientology, like it can from Catholicism and Protestantism.

I'm very cynical when it comes to the gov't v. religion angle.

Of course organizations are made up of individuals. However, there is a difference between individuals doing things of their own volition and an organization driving an ORGANIZED effort.

That's what was banned.

You're muddling the issue needlessly, as the distinction is obvious. Here's another example: say Catholics were editing pages. This is fine. Now say the Pope ordered the use of Vatican computers, labor, and other assets to edit the pages. That would not be fine.

[SteamWake]

LOL I thought this was a joke thread...

Wiki... Scientology... The whole thing just makes me laugh

Originally Posted by Aramike

Of course organizations are made up of individuals. However, there is a difference between individuals doing things of their own volition and an organization driving an ORGANIZED effort.

That's what was banned.

You're muddling the issue needlessly, as the distinction is obvious. Here's another example: say Catholics were editing pages. This is fine. Now say the Pope ordered the use of Vatican computers, labor, and other assets to edit the pages. That would not be fine.

Does that distinction apply to other organizations also? That would be a litmus test....no?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

I have yet to see an organisation which wasn't made up of individuals. I don't mean to be snide but I think this is wrong minded. I think, although I'm not sure, the decision is based on government pressue. Specifically German and French governments which cannot derive money from Scientology, like it can from Catholicism and Protestantism.

I'm very cynical when it comes to the gov't v. religion angle.

What almost venomous 180° turn-around of things is this? Governments making money from churches? Governments pump public taxes into churches! Additional to the mandatory church tax that the church raises in Germany. When the church begins a new construction project, let's say a hospital that becomes called a "Christian hospital" therefore, run by the church, 80-90% of the money for constructing it is public tax money given by the state, and the rest is payed by the church. However, although the public has payed it, it becomes property of the church afterwards. So, I cannot escape to fiancially fund the church that I dislike so much and where I left from many years ago, and need to pay money for them even when I am not a christian, and do not pay the german church tax. I pay the church via my regular taxes.

It is true that France and Germany are Scientology's main opponents in europe (scientology labels Germany as it'S most important "battlefield" - their word - since it hopes that if opposition falls in Germany, it will fall throughout Europe. However, we manage to keep it relatively contained, and a ban of scientolgy is being prepared since 2007 for the same reason we ban criminal organisations and activities that are a threat to the constiotutional order, what scientology is). However, opposition to them is not just governments, but also people, and it is spread across europe. Scientology is confronted with court cases and criminal investigation all over europe, since long time. We do not have a hidden Nazi-agenda to supress religion. Scientology does not compare to the Jews in the third Reich., in no, in absolutely no ways. Scientology simply is no religion, and is not a church just because it claims to be so. It is a profit-oriented and often criminally acting economic enterprise and a dangerous psycho-sect in violation of several basic human rights.

Get yourself informed on scientology a bit before accusing other nations of supressing a precious religious religion. There is so very very much material available if only you use Google on it. And don't you have advise centres on sects in the US?

[d@rk51d3]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

LOL I thought this was a joke thread...

Wiki... Scientology... The whole thing just makes me laugh

Heck, I laughed at Wiki............... never got as far as the Scientology part.