Sharia already in Britain

[joegrundman]

ISLAMIC law has been officially adopted in Britain, with sharia courts given powers to rule on Muslim civil cases.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle4749183.ece

I'm a little bit shocked to hear this

[Skybird]

The moment a country and it'S legislation gives part of legislation out of hand, it has signed it'S self-deconstruction sentence. The "precedent" of Jewish courts already being allowed, does not work - as one reader there correctly pointed out, they exclusively decide internal issues of Jewish religion, not on issues touching the nation's statute books, crime laws etc.

Damn Islam.

But since we all comply with these developements voluntarily and for reasons of suffering from brain cancer and without anybody having held a gun at our head (at least 40 years earlier when we started this, unneeded, unwanted and unasked - today it is a bit different with being exposed to threats of violence), we have no right to complain. We just get what we asked for. And when these things play no role at elections, so that the same people advocating these develoepements get confirmed in office time and again, we deserve it not any better indeed.

But frustrating it is to see the evil unfolding - unopposed, but getting embraced.

[Letum]

Why make this a issue about Islam?
There are plenty of other kinds of arbitration courts.

A town not far from me has it's own secular one. Some churches and synagogues have them.
They have been around for a very long time. This is n new issue and no Islam-specific issue.

If you don't think they should have authority over you, they don't!
If you don't think they are just, don't take your cases there.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

Skybird, who is "we" ? You're not British I think, and this ruling has no effect on German law. Damn islam as much as you want, but blaming a religion for trying to get more control is like blaming people for breathing. I'm affraid the only thing to blame is Britain law and the politicians who passed it, and I'm guessing none of them is neither jew nor muslim. By the way, even though it seems to be at a different level, the jewish court precedent is a fact, in my book divorce and business dispute fall under a country's law, these are not religious matters especially the latter. If the law is inept enough to not define limits to what can be ruled in religious courts and what can't be then it's again the fault of the politicians who wrote that law. Religious court in a laic country is a nonsense anyway no matter what they're allowed to judge.

I say "we" because the Brits are just forerunners in what is being imposed on us all in Europe as well. Also, via the EU, British (or British-Islamic) calls are made an object for the whole EU to be copied.

And I damn islam for doing that, and doing that not in violation but in explicit obedíence to it'S religious demand to subjugate everything that is not itself. And for that intention I damn it, like I would and do damn every other dogma or ideology making totalitarian demands to rule over all the world.

And as I said, and as one reader on the site already said, it is wrong to compare this issue to Jewish arbitration courts (if that is what you call them in English), for in case of the Jewish courts these do not interfere with criminal laws and the general statute books of a nation, while in Britian the article says they plan and already do that, see the comment on the police cooperating with them and bringing muslim criminals to their courts instead to that of the nation. Violence in marriages, like they are decided by the Islamic courts, also should not be left to internal rlegious ruling, since this otuches our Wetsern constitutional core values that protect the equality of man and woman and do noit leave at home to relgious habits. Their habits have to chnage immediately to reflect total obedience to wetsern constitutional values, or they should pack their things and leave - also immediately. Islam has no right whatever to deand Wetsern cultures and constitutions and morals to chnage so that they comply with islamic demands. If they do not like that - I certainly do not stop them from moving back to where they came. we do not win anything from Islam's presence in our societies. It is not to the enrichment of our culture, but to our loss.

We have such "courts" in Germany as well, but here they are seen and described as mediators. Whatever they are, they are pushing with strong determination and with support by radical orthodox organisations to be recognized as the decisive institutions without whom no mediation between the law enforcment and musloim offenders and criminals shoiuld even be allowed to take place. That is ridiculous. It is also to be said that the local "judges" or "mediators" of this kind often represent orthodox, fundamentalistic or nationalistic turkish organisations and raise a culture of corruption and bribery in the Muslim parallel society, abusing the german tolerance for personal narcisissm and to push orthodox and fundamental agendas into the legal culture of Germany.

It is noit just Britain. And not just Germany. Wether you like it or not, Islam will never be satsified, and always demand more, until all is it'S own. that is the arch-islamic demand founded and anchored in it's theological self-definition. total and undisputed global domination - this and nothing else is Muhammad's call.

And i should not condemn it for being like that...?

[Happy Times]

This economic collapse will kill political correctness, something good.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

This economic collapse will kill political correctness, something good.

and the call for more cheap labour will open the gates of europe even more, so that demands to foreigners to comply with european home cultures will be lowered even more. The economy has been one of the greatest defenders of Muslim colonisation in Europe!

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by Skybird

and the call for more cheap labour will open the gates of europe even more, so that demands to foreigners to comply with european home cultures will be lowered even more. The economy has been one of the greatest defenders of Muslim colonisation in Europe!

You think we have need for more cheap labour after this? The illegals are the first to be kicked out, laws will be created to kick those not complying to the culture. The public pressure will be massive. Want to bet?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

I'm just quoting it 'cause it seems it's been overlooked

Skybird, you're merely blaming islam for being a religion. I don't expect religions to behave themselves, I expect my government to stand strong when the religious stuff tries to mix in my country's institutions, and on that matter I really like my country.

I think I have made my uncompromising position on religion in general and Islam in special clear on this board, and beyond the smallest of doubt.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

You think we have need for more cheap labour after this? The illegals are the first to be kicked out, laws will be created to kick those not complying to the culture. The public pressure will be massive. Want to bet?

Foreigners are the ones to accept bad woring conditions or dirty work at low wages - not the local residents living in the country since long. I bet that is the same in germany and the rest of Europe as well. It's been like that since decades, since WWII. And probably you see similiar patterns in past centuries, also reaching as far as to habits of systematic discrimination over social status, ethinic origin - or religious background.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Foreigners are the ones to accept bad woring conditions or dirty work at low wages - not the local residents living in the country since long. I bet that is the same in germany and the rest of Europe as well.

That was before, there will be mass unembloyment.

[Skybird]

hm. We need to wait and see. Different to what usually is said, employers love high unemployment. It gives them more power over employees and helps to reduce the wages as long as the state does not intervene and makes them paying compensation in form of changed tax patterns.

[UnderseaLcpl]

W........T........F..........??????

What the hell are the Brits thinking!? Is there no seperation of church and state!? Why not have Christian courts and Buddhist courts and Scientologist courts!? Why have a court system at all!!!? Where is STEED and why isn't he ranting about this right now!?

I swear to all that I hold dear, if they ever do something like this in the states I'm going to revolt.

[mrbeast]

Originally Posted by Letum

Why make this a issue about Islam?
There are plenty of other kinds of arbitration courts.

A town not far from me has it's own secular one. Some churches and synagogues have them.
They have been around for a very long time. This is n new issue and no Islam-specific issue.

If you don't think they should have authority over you, they don't!
If you don't think they are just, don't take your cases there.

Agreed, these courts are only legally binding if both parties agree to it, this is a non-story; just an opportunity to snipe at muslims and let the doomsayers have a good moan about how Islam is taking over Europe etc etc.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by mrbeast

Agreed, these courts are only legally binding if both parties agree to it, this is a non-story; just an opportunity to snipe at muslims and let the doomsayers have a good moan about how Islam is taking over Europe etc etc.

I think it is a story because it subverts the authority of the state. Whether or not both parties agree is irrelevant. The nature of the case is irrelevant.

If there can be seperate courts for Islam, or Catholicism, or Oprah fans, or whatever, it creates a seperate system of justice, even if it is only in civil court.
That is inequitable and against the spirit of good government.

Furthermore, it propagates divisiveness in culture.

If Britain wants to pursue leftist policies like this, fine. There's a reason that the sun will set on the British Empire at precisely 7:07 pm GMT today.

[mrbeast]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

W........T........F..........??????

What the hell are the Brits thinking!? Is there no seperation of church and state!? Why not have Christian courts and Buddhist courts and Scientologist courts!? Why have a court system at all!!!? Where is STEED and why isn't he ranting about this right now!?

I swear to all that I hold dear, if they ever do something like this in the states I'm going to revolt.

Technically the UK only has a partial seperation of church and state. The Queen is not only the head of state but also the head of the Church of England. There is also only partial seperation of the judiciary and the government through the office of lord chancellor, although this has been modified in the last few years somewhat, not too sure what the situation is though. State run schools also have Church of England prayer and religeous assembly, but this is not rigidly enforced and in most schools its merely a formality (in my secondary school it happened once in a blue moon) Children can opt out if their parents object; this is somewhat different from a church run school or Catholic school.

In practice though, a speration of sorts works by convention, though, as with many things in the British state the potenial remains, its never taken advantage of.