Advice needed - unlucky or stupid?

[u_tommy]

I'm looking for a little advice... was i unlucky or stupid?

(A litttle background) I'm new to SH3 & GWX, on my 1st 'training' career. For the 1st few patrols i had realism at 44% and have slowly raised it to 77%... i'm not ready for total manual targeting yet.. and i like the external cameras.

This is what happened.. where did i go wrong?

Contact report of large convoy...full load of torps aboard, i get ahead of it and wait... seas are very rough, its Aug 1940, there appears to be 3 destroyers guarding an approx. convoy of 5 wide 8 long.

As we are close to England and heading west, with the whole Atlantic to follow them across, i decide to target the lead destroyer. My thinking being if i can wipe out the escorts i can harry them all the way to the US without a threat to me. (Merchants are unarmed)

I sit, engines off, a 1000 yards off the lead escort's path, periscope depth. She doesn't see me or hear me.. my 1st torp just hits her stern, set to impact at 2.5m depth. But its enough... she's going down.

Now i'm right amongst the large convoy, i fire 3 torps at 3 merchants, one stern and 2 fore torps, all good hits. As this is going on one of the flanking escorts is trying to locate me...she cuts into the convoy... i crash dive. At approx. 30m i go silent and continue to dive to 120m.. plotting a zig zag course under the route of the convoy at 1knot (approx 70rpm), but in the opposite direction.

This bloody escort does one pass, drops maybe 4 or 5 depth charges, disables my electric engines, we have critical flooding. One compartment cannot be repaired... i sink to my death.

Just one pass. Was this very unlucky or did i screw up?

(this was my 1st patrol with the 'noise indicator' turned off)

Any advice for you pros would be much appreciated.

[Sensekhmet]

Bad luck I'd say. Even such a mediocre player as myself doesn't go out as quickly as this.

[antikristuseke]

Sounds to be you were plain unlucky, though personaly I'd have gone to at least 180m when diving and as the escort made his run, go to flank speed and do a shapr turn to try to avoid the charges, then back to silent speed.

[meduza]

You shouldn't crash dive (unless necessary) because you go to flank speed, which is very noisy. As soon as you release the eels start to dive at slow speed or even slower (manually set the speed to 1 kt). Since your descent rate is very slow, you'll want to dive at soon as possible.

In my opinion, sinking the escorts is not worth the trouble. First, they often change course and speed, and second they are not very worthy target.
My tactic is to execute a 3-4 attack, sinking two biggest ships per attack.

As far as the destroyer's lucky shot is concerned, how deep were you at the moment?
Once your torpedo hit the leading escort, all the others rushed to your assumed position. When you crash dived (flank speed) they pinpointed your location and made an accurate depth charge hit.

[u_tommy]

Thanks for the advice..

I was at 120m when depth charged, some distance, i thought, from my last 'noisey' moment, i.e. when at flank.

But what you say makes sense, now... only go crash dive when the destroyer is really bearing down on you with a chance of ramming you. I went 'crash dive' in order to start a fast dive.. and considering i was in the middle of a large convoy i really didn't expect the escort to pick me up so easily.

So.. go deeper and and dive super quite and slow. And i was unlucky.. is that a fair assessment?

Originally Posted by meduza

In my opinion, sinking the escorts is not worth the trouble. First, they often change course and speed, and second they are not very worthy target.
My tactic is to execute a 3-4 attack, sinking two biggest ships per attack.

This is what i normally do... however with only 3 escorts and the whole Atalantic to cross i thought i try a different tactic... i was planning in 3 attacks to remove the 3 escorts and then harry the convoy with my remaining torps and plenty of deck gun when the weather improved. Didn't quite work out

[danlisa]

Originally Posted by u_tommy

Thanks for the advice..

I was at 120m when depth charged, some distance, i thought, from my last 'noisey' moment, i.e. when at flank.

But what you say makes sense, now... only go crash dive when the destroyer is really bearing down on you with a chance of ramming you. I went 'crash dive' in order to start a fast dive.. and considering i was in the middle of a large convoy i really didn't expect the escort to pick me up so easily.

Spot on.

The escort detected you because you used Crash Dive. CD is only an evasive tactic and should be used in emergencies only.

Up until that point you were not detected and probably would never have been at the speed & RPM you mention in your OP. However, if you were detected, 120m is not deep enough, use 200m min as a guide for evasion (depth permitting) but in some instances (late war) you may have to try going deeper.

So, not being rude but I'd label this a stoopid rather than unlucky.

Still, you won't make that mistake again.

FYI, remember, when at depth while trying to evade an escort, you have time from when the cans start to fall to when they are actually at your depth. Use the Hydrophone, listen for the escorts attack run, listen for the DC splashes, go ahead full with hard rudder for 6-10secs then back to silent running @ 1/2kts. This speed & direction change will be enough to avoid the falling DC pattern and could possibly throw off your pursuing enemy.

On the bright side, you have the option to try it again. Many 1000's did not.

Happy hunting Kaleun.

[meduza]

Originally Posted by u_tommy

So.. go deeper and and dive super quite and slow. And i was unlucky.. is that a fair assessment?

Yes.
Getting killed by one hit at 120m is unlucky. I had a real horror a few day ago. After a successfull attack, I went as deep as posible (the see only 136m deep). I was depth charged for three hours (most of it in 1x time), seriously damaged with heavy flooding and send to the bottom 2 times (i was lucky there was a bottom at the time ). Somehow I managed to escape.

Originally Posted by u_tommy

This is what i normally do... however with only 3 escorts and the whole Atalantic to cross i thought i try a different tactic... i was planning in 3 attacks to remove the 3 escorts and then harry the convoy with my remaining torps and plenty of deck gun when the weather improved. Didn't quite work out

I must try this once

[Pisces]

Crash dive and flank being a good posibility of your detections, I wondered if you gave the 'silent running' order. He may have gotten close while you were on slow speed (1 knot) and your elevated ambient noise gave you away.

[u_tommy]

Thanks again, really helpful... as said lesson learnt!...

Originally Posted by danlisa

So, not being rude but I'd label this a stoopid rather than unlucky.

Not rude at all mate... hence the title

[Sailor Steve]

And of course around here anytime anyone says an action was stupid he does so partly tongue-in-cheek, knowing full well we've all done the same or equally boneheaded things in the course of our "careers".:rotfl:

[superfecta]

While I don't use GWX, I've noticed 1knot, 1/2knot ect speeds. if you go into your conning tower and look around you should see a left and right RPM for your engines/ motors: I believe 50RPM or less is norm for maximum quiet speed. or for me i can get 2 knots even later in the war without detection.

[Jimbuna]

If anybody tries telling you they've never done that.....Then you tell them they've probably never played the game.

[Subwolf]

Oh no, such a young and promising kaleun lost. Looks like it's BdU who was stupid sending you out there too soon

Btw, did you finish the convoy attack exam in the naval academy? It will give you a few hints and ideas on how to do it correctly.

I never attack the lead escort, risk of a miss is high, and they will know my position. As a kaleun my orders are to attack merchants. Early in the war I prefer surface attacks at night, striking when the escorts are at some distance. I can outrun some escorts on the surface, like the Flower class.

In submerged attacks I position myself in front of the convoy, silent running under the lead escort, and I'm inside the convoy. After the attack I dive deep 180-200m silent running heading 180 degrees of the convoy. The escorts know I'll end up behind the convoy, and usually wait for me there. If detected I'm avoiding the DC runs as described here.

I'm on patrol 3 in U-52, a VIIB. It's June 40, and so far I find the escorts very easy to avoid

[u_tommy]

I'm embarrassed to say... i have done none of the training.. zero.

I tend to find forums like this so much better for learning and understanding a game.. hmmm but maybe that would be a good idea before my next career.

Is all the training worth while... or just certain parts of it?