McCain brings back Amnesty for illegals

[SUBMAN1]

Nice. What a bastard. Maybe Obama is the better choice. And on top of that, launced a Spanish web page on his website:

http://www.johnmccain.com/espanol/



And now he has TV ads in Spanish????

More info here:

http://www.firesociety.com/blog/100/25037/?src=111

-S

[STEED]

I hear his former prison guard is backing him.

[Iceman]

What state or country are you from Subman>....?

I hear this kind of stuff all the time and unless you hail from California,Arizona,Texas,New Mexico or Florida I don't think people really have a grasp for what is going on with the Illegal aliens in this country ,specifically the ones from South America.

You,Me or whoemever aint' going to go round up one million of these specific types of illegals and send them somewhere....it ain't going to happen...accpet it,get over it,deal with it ,move on and come up with another solution....a big wall is a clossaul flipping waste of my money to boot.

Bringing them into the fold is the only viable sloution as well as specific change moving forward.....

any other border people care to ring in...this is a dead horse by now an frankly just want them to belly up to the bar,,pay taxes,get valid id's etc etc...and become Americans.

[Tchocky]

Human migration tends to follow the lines of economic migration - open, regulated borders are better.

Regulated as in organised and controlled, much like trade laws.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Human migration tends to follow the lines of economic migration - open, regulated borders are better.

Regulated as in organised and controlled, much like trade laws.

Ours are open, but not in the normal sense - they just swim across in swarms. Your idea is fine if they went through proper channels but they don't. I don't mind Mexicans coming into my country if they go through the INS. Coming over here illegally and then claiming they have a right to be here is completely absurd!

-S

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Ours are open, but not in the normal sense - they just swim across in swarms. Your idea is fine if they went through proper channels but they don't. I don't mind Mexicans coming into my country if they go through the INS. Coming over here illegally and then claiming they have a right to be here is completely absurd!

-S

I have to agree here with Subman. If you are here making the dollar, you need to pay your taxes and become a viable member of the society. Free loading is not the way to go. As far as those here already, as stated above, there is no way the will round them up. However, deny them employment and they seem to move on. What needs to be done is more illegals NOT making their way here. But, if there is a will there is a way...as the saying goes.

BTW, is this site really from the McCain camp?

[PeriscopeDepth]

Was a border person until a year ago. Took an immigration policy class at a university near the border while in school. The gist of it was: "As long as migrants can make a lot more money here, they will figure out a way to get here. Increasing enforcement in urban areas (such as San Diego) is largely a political effort, as smugglers will simply get in in more rural places that have had resources sapped to guard the urban areas. There will always be a demand for getting into this country, and increasing enforcement efforts makes it more dangerous for everybody involved. As our border forces step up enforcement with manpower and technology, potential migrants who want to get smuggled into the United States will increasingly turn to professional people who know how/have the resources to get around the increased enforcement and technology - Mexican organized crime."

PD

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

Was a border person until a year ago. Took an immigration policy class at a university near the border while in school. The gist of it was: "As long as migrants can make a lot more money here, they will figure out a way to get here. Increasing enforcement in urban areas (such as San Diego) is largely a political effort, as smugglers will simply get in in more rural places that have had resources sapped to guard the urban areas. There will always be a demand for getting into this country, and increasing enforcement efforts makes it more dangerous for everybody involved. As our border forces step up enforcement with manpower and technology, potential migrants who want to get smuggled into the United States will increasingly turn to professional people who know how/have the resources to get around the increased enforcement and technology - Mexican organized crime."

PD

Hardly the case. Shows you that Universities are biased. Your proof sits with states like Arizona where they are all going home or to other states. Their laws are working.

-S

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Iceman

What state or country are you from Subman>....?

I hear this kind of stuff all the time and unless you hail from California,Arizona,Texas,New Mexico or Florida I don't think people really have a grasp for what is going on with the Illegal aliens in this country ,specifically the ones from South America.

You,Me or whoemever aint' going to go round up one million of these specific types of illegals and send them somewhere....it ain't going to happen...accpet it,get over it,deal with it ,move on and come up with another solution....a big wall is a clossaul flipping waste of my money to boot.

Bringing them into the fold is the only viable sloution as well as specific change moving forward.....

any other border people care to ring in...this is a dead horse by now an frankly just want them to belly up to the bar,,pay taxes,get valid id's etc etc...and become Americans.

Hardly once again - as is proof with AZ. They are leaving. And, considering it costs a typical state like Colorado who is the Average at $1.2 Billion per year, I'd say if that money were diverted to getting rid of them, it would be easy. Average that number to 50 states total! That's $60 Billion a year we spend on these people and that is even a conservative number! Plenty of money to round them up and get rid of the economic strain they cause.

Crap - I have to have a 4.0 to get into a University, but if I were an illegal Mexican, not only will they let me in with a 2.0, but you would get a damn grant on top of it! I'm tired of this catering.

-S

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Hardly once again - as is proof with AZ. They are leaving. And, considering it costs a typical state like Colorado who is the Average at $1.2 Billion per year, I'd say if that money were diverted to getting rid of them, it would be easy. Average that number to 50 states total! That's $60 Billion a year we spend on these people and that is even a conservative number! Plenty of money to round them up and get rid of the economic strain they cause.

-S

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/opinion/88914.php
http://www.reuters.com/article/inDep...26988720080624

Where there's a will, there will always be a way. And it is SO much easier to play federal border games that look great on a 30 second news segment then to actually pass comprehensive reform that could help fix the problem.

PD

[Platapus]

Since most illegal aliens are only illegal because they have not undergone an arbitrary and artificially created bureaucratic procedure, perhaps the solution is to fix the bureaucratic procedure so as to allow them to become legal aliens.

At the base of it, we have people coming in to my country and working hard doing jobs that not only do American’s don’t want to do but jobs that significantly increase my standard of living. This is a good thing. I want to encourage people to come into my country and work hard to make my standard of life better.

I don’t want these workers kicked out of my country as I would then lose the benefit of their labour. However, I also don’t want these workers breaking the laws. That is not right either.

One of the more common complaints is that illegal workers don’t pay taxes. Well that is only partially true. Illegal workers don’t pay state and federal income tax but they still pay sales taxes and other fees. What is forgotten is that while they don’t pay income taxes, we, as a country are benefiting from their work. That is not without value.

My solution is two fold

1. Make it very very easy for migrant workers to be able to work in my country legally. There are not evil people. These are workers trying to earn a living for their families. This is not something we need to be fighting.

We should be encouraging not discouraging workers becoming legal. This means shortening the application times, eliminating the applications fees, providing application assistance. Sponsorship needs to be looked at. We can’t eliminate it but it could be modified to make it easier for migrant workers to change employers.

2. After we have made it very very easy for migrant workers to be able to work legally, we than should start making if very very unpleasant for workers to work illegally. This means targeting the employers. This means cracking down on illegal workers and sentencing them to work farms.

Hey migrant worker you have a choice, work here legally and reap the rewards of your labour, or work here illegally and work for the state for free. Hmmmm what do you think people will choose? However you can’t do step 2 until step 1 is complete.

Make it easy for people to do things legally and hard for them to do it illegally. This is not rocket surgery folks.

The concept of illegal aliens, with the exception of racial discrimination, mostly against the Chinese for some reason, is less than 100 years old in the United States. If you were not Chinese and you entered this country in the 1800s there was no legal or illegal status. You where just here working hard.

Clearly we need laws and we need to enforce the laws. But we should also make it easier for immigrant workers to work here legally. This means that prices will go up, but not as high as if we somehow found Americans willing to do the same jobs.

We need to recognize what these people are. What they are doing (working hard for our country) is not what is illegal. What is illegal is the way they went about it (breaking immigration laws). They are and will remain a valuable labour asset for our country.

We should focus on the root problem. It is not the people, it is the immigration system that makes it more attractive for people to break the law than to obey it.

The solution is to make it so that it is more attractive to obey the law than it is to break it.

Don’t tell a migrant worker that they need to wait 3-5 years before being able to work. They need to feed their families this week and there are jobs that are open now!

Don’t tell a migrant worker that they need to pony up immigration fees that can total hundreds of dollars. If they had a few hundreds of dollars, they probably would not be a migrant worker!

Don’t tell a migrant worker that they have to stay with one employee regardless of working conditions or risk being deported. This only encourages exploitation.

Instead tell the workers that they can expect to have their work visa approved in a matter of weeks so they can get to the jobsites when needed.

Tell the workers that now that they are documented, any immigration fees would be deducted from their pay, because now you have to pay taxes (and so does the employer)

Tell the workers that once they are documented, they are free to move to other jobs because now they have the right of negotiation.

The end result will be that we will still have these needed workers working hard for my benefit.

[Ducimus]

It's a little late to round up all the illegals and send them packing. Without errecting the American equivlant to the berlin wall, it's a waste of time and money anyway, as they'll be right back in no time at all.


I have conceded to myself, that i live in province of Mexico. Actual Americans are becoming a minority. In many places they already are, in other places they eventually will be. Neighborhoods that were nice, classic American suberbia, are slowly degrading because of the increasing amount of mexicans moving in. Often 4 familes to a house and things like that. I like to joke that Mexico has decide to toss the treaty of Guadalope hildalgo out the window and reclaim the land we won from them back during the mexican American War. It's not far from the truth. I say this in sarchasm, but I gotta hand it to them, their invading our country, occupiing large portions of it, reaping the land for all its worth, and doing it all without firing a shot, pretty slick.

Without sarchasm, Illegals, i see as a domestic version of outsourcing. They do take jobs from Americans, but theres really nothing you can do about it. (Big buisnesses final triumph over organized labor) Being realistic for a moment, the only viable solution (that i would like) is to cut our losses, accept the damn bastards that are already here, and then erect aforementioned "Berlin wall" to keep the rest of them bastards out. However, that is an "active" project, requiring alot of patrolling, and beefing up our southern border is going to be a huge cost of money. A cost that probably nobody is going to want to pay. I wish we would.

So degressing on that thought, there really isnt anything we can do about it. The only thing that will send those people home, is if our economy crashs and they don't do any better here then they did there.

I once heard George Carlin (yes i know many of you guys hate him) said something along the lines of "placating the middle class" to keep our minds off of how "we're getting screwed by the upper 1%". If you think about it, he's right. It's the upper 1% that are ultimatly calling the shots on things like this. Buisness, big buisness, love things like domestic outsourcing. It's my beleif that the way things are going, eventually they'll be two types of people in the US. CEO's, and wallmart employees. Everything in between will have been automated, or outsourced to China, India, or Mexico. Im no economics guru, but it seems to me the "economic stimulus" to get people to get out and buy something, is a big hint at just how badly things are f*cked up. We should be a producing nation, not a consuming nation.

[JetSnake]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Nice. What a bastard. Maybe Obama is the better choice. And on top of that, launced a Spanish web page on his website:

http://www.johnmccain.com/espanol/



And now he has TV ads in Spanish????

More info here:

http://www.firesociety.com/blog/100/25037/?src=111

-S

It is called pandering for votes. All of these ****bags do this. I just happen to dislike mccain less than obama.