German commandos let Taleban commander escape due to ROE

[Skybird]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...554033,00.html


Damn stupid German policies.

But we mean it oh so well, isn't that worth something, too? - Not even what the dog leaves behind on the sides of the street.

German special forces had an important Taliban commander in their sights in Afghanistan. But he escaped -- because the Germans were not authorized to use lethal force. The German government's hands-tied approach to the war is causing friction with its NATO allies.
(...)
Nonetheless, even in a time of growing threats in Afghanistan, Berlin is sticking to its "principle of proportionality," stressed one high-ranking official in the Defense Ministry. A fugitive like the Baghlan bomber is not an aggressor and should not be shot unless necessary, the official explains.
Soldiers from Britain's British Special Air Service or the US's Delta Force are less bothered about such hair-splitting. For them, this is a war in which it comes down to "kill or be killed," say sources in military circles in Kabul. The "targets" are identified, tracked down and -- often with the help of laser-guided weapons systems -- "eliminated."

A massmurderer and terrorist in the run - being a fugitive instead a taregt...? Germany - little country for lunatics.

And the result of Germany's weak mind and heart and raised sensibility for poor terrorist's needs and sorrows and fears:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...547037,00.html

Either gow in in full size and with uncompromised determination, or leave and get out of the way. Either fight - or don't, and get out of the way. Either do as you talk - or be silent, and get out of the way.

[bradclark1]

Damn stupid German policies.

It's as in all politics world wide. You are wrong going one way(WWII) and to make up for it you go extemes the other way.

[Herr_Pete]

all you ever hear is that commandos capture leaders of the taliban. How many of them is there.

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by Herr_Pete

all you ever hear is that commandos capture leaders of the taliban. How many of them is there.

I would think that anyone who commands or runs groups could be called a leader. It's just good PR not to state level or how low I guess unless he's a major player.

[Hawk66]

Originally Posted by Skybird

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...554033,00.html


Damn stupid German policies.

We (Germany) are currently lacking politicians who have morals, like honor & visions and not looking for the next election.

Some Germans will laugh, but I wish Helmut Kohl back!

[Schroeder]

Laughing.
Sorry but I think that exactly that guy was just looking for the next election. Do you still remember the "blooming landscapes" in the GDR?

O.K. that was OT now, sorry.

[Hawk66]

Politics is actually a matter of opinion; I know (otherwise we would not need Democracy)

But do you remember his (and Helmut Schmidt's) tough decisions regarding the NATO Double-Track Decision?. I heavlily doubt, that our current leaders would have the courage to do it again.

[AntEater]

Kohl?
Seriously, this guy was just a bully with a lot of friends in the (Springer) press to praise him. And his post reunification economic policy was just the biggest waste of money in german history.
As said, Schmidt was a really good Chancellor.

Re the Germans in Afghanistan, our ROE is a mess. Everything has to be approved at ministry level.
Officially, Germany is not at war and accordingly Taliban are just criminals. Worse, the german officialdom treats the Afghan authorities as if they were german. Remember the police training fiasco. Germany trained Afgans basically to become police officers in Germany while all the Afghans wanted was some guys who can regulate traffic and hold an AK.
Problem is, the Taliban are not playing along. Apparently they haven't heard that the North is supposed to be "quiet".

But seriously, regarding the "leaders" and such:
No matter wether you kill them or arrest them, there's no shortage of leaders.
The problem is that western militaries are caught in this "effect based" thinking. Basically, you have to target a key area, either a facility or a person to unravel the whole enemy structure. Nice theory and worked quite well 1991.
Just like any "magical solution" to warfare sooner or later it stops working because everybody has read the book.
Problem is, in a guerilla war, basically everybody is replacable, at least if the guerillas enjoy popular support.
You can't just kill/arrest anyone and expect the rest to stop fighting. The US could kill 20.000 alledged Vietcong leaders in the Phoenix program and they still lost the war.
You can only fight guerillas by cutting off their supplies. Funny is, in Vietnam this was not possible because the suppliers of the Guerillas were the worst enemies of the US, the USSR and China.
In Afghanistan it is not possible because the suppliers are the best friends of the US, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.
Times change...
:rotfl:

[August]

Originally Posted by AntEater

The US could kill 20.000 alledged Vietcong leaders in the Phoenix program and they still lost the war.

Actually the Viet Cong alone, even supplied by the Soviets and Red Chinese, would not have been able to carry on the war beyond '67. Aside from their leadership losses from the Phoenix program, which were more significant than they admit (even to this day), the Tet Offensive pretty much finished them as a fighting force. It was all the North Viets show after that.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Hawk66

We (Germany) are currently lacking politicians who have morals, like honor & visions and not looking for the next election.

Some Germans will laugh, but I wish Helmut Kohl back!

I have no desire for Birne, as my generation used to call him, but I recommend this reading:

Helmut Schmidt: "Auf der Suche nach einer öffentlichen Moral".
http://www.amazon.de/Suche-nach-eine...1224738&sr=8-2

Beyond that, I can only remind all Germans here of Peter Scholl-Latour, who only has laughter and mockery for the leftists and green "revoluzzers" of the 60s and 70s and 80s - that today try to playact as "Staatsmänner" and talk about global issues and war and peace and engage in badly thought out military adventures. It is hilarious.