What in the he$$ happened?

[Segwin]

Setup perfect for a sonar shot. Kept updating range, must have pinged the ship 2 dozen times, had angle of the bow set - knew the course and set up via tdc, took speed measurements - 4 times via mark, wait 3 min and mark again then measure distance. It was night and pitch black outside so sonar was the only way.

As you can see from the pic the range was way off, the speed was way off... I don't understand. :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:

When I saw this happen I thought there might have been two ships so I went back to the sonar and tuned around the dial but only picked up one contact.

[Rockin Robbins]

First of all, you don't have a plot there! You can't hit squat unless you have a plotted track to confirm newly acquired data against. I don't see marks for two position points three minutes apart, so I don't understand how you measured speed. A plot is how you find error and refine data. No plot equals no booms!

Interestingly, it looks like your impact point is set up ahead of the target. If your speed is nearly correct and you're set up for a solution that is too far away, the effect is the same as underestimating speed. But since you are led too far ahead of the target, a shot might well hit here! You are certainly close enough to absorb medium sized error without causing a miss.

So, what you have here is an interesting situation without enough information to analyse. In this case i cannot tell you what the he$$ happened.

[Segwin]

That pic is from the attack map which I thought was best to illustrate what happened. Correct me if I'm wrong however I don't think all the marks port over from the nav map. That's why you can't see a plot or marks for speed timing.

[Rockin Robbins]

I should have known that. A look at the nav map would be very enlightening. I still think you have a 30% probability hit there. I have been known to swim a fish out there and correct for the second shot for a hit. Forget about range. If you miss ahead, reduce TDC speed input. If you miss astern, increase it. Shoot again for the hit. Sometimes when you're that close you'll get the hit on the first shot.

I'm a little suspicious that there's something wrong with your sonar/TDC technique looking at the amount of range error, which shouldn't exceed 10 or 15% in most cases. Are you throwing the "send range to TDC" switch or pushing the toolbar button and verifying that number with the TDC? Are you watching to ensure you are entering middle of the error range numbers?

[Wilcke]

Its a very satisfying shot this hydrophone only attack. I use Werners method for pinging, I ping three times to get a good average range to the target. Then I send that to the TDC. This is way out there 15000 yards. Once you get the speed and track. You still need to confirm and refine all the data. You can opt for using the Position Keeper but if you do a lot of maneuvering you are going to need a lot of updates to keep it current and viable.

I could be wrong but in my experience I prefer to set up a Dick O' Cane shot with the hydrophone on those dark and poor visibility nights.

Use the Single Mission Borneo Convoy to hone the blade. Plenty of targets, predictable, repeatable and the tin cans are not to rabid.

RR,

I watched your DOK video last night very good. Interesting about double clicking the TDC triangle. When is the new one coming out? Well done!

[Quillan]

I don't know if this is what happened to you, but what I've found in TMO/RSRDC is that when I get to within 2000-2500 yards of the merchant, they start zig-zagging. I've begun taking 2500-3000 yard shots just to stop this. I've lost track of how many times I've set up my shot using the radar, gotten well ahead of the target and submerged to lie in wait, been having the sonar man follow the closest target, only to have them start weaving when they get to that 2000 yard distance mark. Most of the time, though, they only vary by 300-400 yards to each side of their course, though.

If you're running RSRDC, the other possibility is bad luck, which I've also had a bunch of. The ship routes in RSRDC zig-zag naturally, and at least a dozen times I've set up for a ship/convoy/task force, only to have them hit one of those points and veer off in a new direction right before reaching the firing point!

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Wilcke

I watched your DOK video last night very good. Interesting about double clicking the TDC triangle. When is the new one coming out? Well done!

Ya, I think I'm the first to notice that in order for the TDC to show the proper angles you have to click the send button twice, and I know that I am the first to actually document it. You have inspired me to do a Dick O'Kane Sonar Only attack. I think that could be fun. My provisional Dick O'Kane tutorial video.

First I have to finish my complete from the ground up reinstallation so I can have the latest version of TMO running. I hate running the stock game with the x on the attack screen and the color coded friend or foe, velocity vectors, ship silhouettes....the list goes on and on of all the things in the stock nav map that the captain would not have in a real submarine. I want to demonstrate with TMO. I hope to complete reassembly tonight.

While I was at it I made two pristine installations, one of 1.4 and one of 1.5 and write protected them. They will never be played, but only be used to pull myself out of the quicksand if I pull a stupid move again that corrupts my installation. I can grab a copy of any original file in seconds.

[Segwin]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

I'm a little suspicious that there's something wrong with your sonar/TDC technique looking at the amount of range error, which shouldn't exceed 10 or 15% in most cases. Are you throwing the "send range to TDC" switch or pushing the toolbar button and verifying that number with the TDC? Are you watching to ensure you are entering middle of the error range numbers?

I was using the icon to send the range to the tdc. I was also sending bearing via the icon as well.

Does sending bearing automatically set the AOB?