launch transients, torpedo sounds, and realism

[Keelbuster]

I'm sure this topic has been beaten to death over the years, but it still bugs me. I'm not sure what the advantage was of an electric torp over a steam torp in real life, because I imagine that a torpedo launch (and it's entire subsequent run) would be such a noisy event that escorts would most certainly hear it, and hence get a good bearing to the attacker from it. Like - in real life, at torpedo launch, I imagine that ships would start evasion right away following a 'Torpedo in the water' report. I wonder if there's some way to mod this into SH3??

:hmm:

My first thought would be to tie in an invisible Bold with no effects
to the launch.

Anybody listening hears those.

[Sailor Steve]

I've read Nicholas Monsarrat's works (The Cruel Sea, Monsarrat at Sea), as well as Donald MacIntyre's U-Boat Killer, and I don't recall either of them ever mentioning anything like that; and they were both escort captains during the war.

[Keelbuster]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I've read Nicholas Monsarrat's works (The Cruel Sea, Monsarrat at Sea), as well as Donald MacIntyre's U-Boat Killer, and I don't recall either of them ever mentioning anything like that; and they were both escort captains during the war.

Interesting...it seems strange though eh? Like - here you have these escorts, with a SO listening carefully to the nearby ocean, hoping to catch a sonar ranging ping or the sound of an engine on a bearing with no surface contact, and then you've got this sudden cacophony followed by a long, loud, torpedo run. In terms of sound contacts, you might as well just shout. Like - SO's on surface warships did say 'Torpedo in the Water!' in those days right?

I don't think they had the ability to hear sounds as well as now days.
Now days, they can tell what ship it is (by name!)
and if it's running properly!!

Back then?
I doubt you'd hear the doors and launch over the convoy sounds themselves.

[Keelbuster]

Originally Posted by privateer

I don't think they had the ability to hear sounds as well as now days.
Now days, they can tell what ship it is (by name!)
and if it's running properly!!

Back then?
I doubt you'd hear the doors and launch over the convoy sounds themselves.

Yea - my feeling is the same - the transients would probably be hard to detect. However, a torpedo screaming along at 40 kts - that should be a pretty distinct sound contact, no? I mean, in the game, we can hear it very clearly - should not they also?

[Platapus]

I guess the ships sound heads would have to be aimed directly at the torpedo in order to pick up the sounds. What would be the chance of that happening at precisely the same moment as the torpedo passing through the bearing?

I think it would be much easier spotting the steam torpedo path and from what I read even that was difficult except in calm seas.

I think it would be a pretty lucky sound crew to detect a torpedo in WWII and to be able to locate and determine a reciprocal plot in time to take any effective maneuvers would be extra tough.

Has anyone come across any references from British or American ASW folks in WWII addressing this?

[Keelbuster]

Originally Posted by privateer

:hmm:

My first thought would be to tie in an invisible Bold with no effects
to the launch.

Anybody listening hears those.

I like the idea - that might serve the purpose. I mean, it's not like GWX 2.0 is not challenging enough, but I'm wondering about this aspect of uboat combat. If firing a torpedo really was a _loud_, salient, event, then it should have an impact on the behaviour of the defenders.

[Subnuts]

Originally Posted by Keelbuster

I'm sure this topic has been beaten to death over the years, but it still bugs me. I'm not sure what the advantage was of an electric torp over a steam torp in real life, because I imagine that a torpedo launch (and it's entire subsequent run) would be such a noisy event that escorts would most certainly hear it, and hence get a good bearing to the attacker from it. Like - in real life, at torpedo launch, I imagine that ships would start evasion right away following a 'Torpedo in the water' report. I wonder if there's some way to mod this into SH3??

During the Second World War, escort sonar could only hear down a narrow cone, normally about ten degrees across. The operator could rotate the sonar apparatus to listen in different directions, but he couldn't listen to the entire ocean at once. This isn't the case now, since modern sonars use hundreds of fixed hydrophones in large arrays, and display screens can depict incoming data in realtime, but in WWII, this limitation was a huge issue.

The main advantage of an electric torpedo is that they didn't leave a foamy wake which basically said "go down the bearing this wake and you'll find me soon enough!"