How many more will it take?

[AVGWarhawk]

The tazer has to go. Another traffic incident, a tazer and a dead guy.



http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n3724886.shtml

[Kapitan_Phillips]

To be replaced with what?

[The Munster]

Often wondered if they can be deployed on a person that has a pacemaker fitted; wouldn't this sort of shock affect it ?

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by The Munster

Often wondered if they can be deployed on a person that has a pacemaker fitted; wouldn't this sort of shock affect it ?

That's an understatement if I've ever seen one

Seriously, the question shouldn't be "replaced with what" - the question is of replacing the "philosophy" of using it. Right now all these scandals coming out are cases where it was used as a supposedly non-lethal device. It's not a non-lethal device. It's maybe a slightly-less-lethal device than a gun, although some have argued that shooting people without aiming for vital areas might actually be safer... And since when are police officers chosen from a pool of wussies who can't go in and wrestle an unarmed person to the ground? Afraid to get their feathers ruffled now are they?

Taser use needs to be severely restricted, and the approach to it needs to be as to a very dangerous, harmful weapon that should be used not to enforce cooperation, but to incapacitate people who present an immediate and serious threat.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Kapitan_Phillips

To be replaced with what?

Replaced with good officer training and officers who know how to control a traffic stop. Worked for quite some time before the tazer.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Would one of those extreme cases include someone who was resisting arrest yet was much bigger in stature than the officer in question? Its not as simple as just pouncing in there and having a scuffle, who knows what anyone could be carrying on them and what might be going through their minds.

Not co-operating with an officer automatically sets off alarm bells in his/her head - why are they so anxious not to leave the vehicle, why do they refuse simple orders, why do they not put their hands on the wheel. Its more complicated than saying "Its killed people, make it hard to access". Its probably saved more lives than its ever taken.

[SUBMAN1]

Here you guys will like this:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...motorist_N.htm

A Utah trooper who used a Taser to subdue a stubborn motorist who was walking away from him during a traffic stop felt threatened and acted reasonably, state officials said Friday.

So I guess walking away from an officer is now a threat.

-S

[AVGWarhawk]

That is the video I posted a few months back. This guy was out of control with tazer. He conducted this stop totally wrong.

[AVGWarhawk]

KP,

Unfortunate we do not have all the details on this recent tazing but the guy was going to pick up his parents at the airport. Other than speeding that probably got him stopped, what else could he have done to warrant a the tazer? I hope more details come out on this.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

That is the video I posted a few months back. This guy was out of control with tazer. He conducted this stop totally wrong.

Then its the cop, not the tazer that was at fault. Training should be stricter, yes, and punishments more severe for misuse of the weapon, but it certainly not be less accessable than it is now.

[CCIP]

I'm tired of this "scary situation for an officer" stuff. It's one thing when you're in a situation where someone's gone out and created an exteme situation (say, went in somewhere and started shooting), or the operation where the cop is involved is something like a confrontation with a gang of criminals; but a traffic stop is another thing. Seriously, don't these guys get paid to take a bit of an extra risk for the sake of public safety?

Anyone got a statistic on how many cops actually get shot while conducting routine traffic stops or calls to accident sites? I have a feeling that this doesn't happen an awful lot. Unlike these incidents that I'm constantly hearing about.

Seriously. It disgusts me that people who are supposed to protect the society are so scared they're willing to hurt innocent people just to avoid any possible risk to - who else - themselves!

[AVGWarhawk]

If it looks to be a "scary situation" call for back up. Go to the cruiser and call it in. Other officers will be there in a hot minute. Officers need to be schooled in controlling and being the authority when making traffic stops etc.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Originally Posted by CCIP

Anyone got a statistic on how many cops actually get shot while conducting routine traffic stops or calls to accident sites? I have a feeling that this doesn't happen an awful lot. Unlike these incidents that I'm constantly hearing about.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2006/table19.html

[AVGWarhawk]

Good table KP but do you think better officer training and training that happens every year might reduce the numbers shown? I do. Adding more weapons is not part of training to handle situations IMHO.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Its easy to say that cops need to learn to be more authoritative during traffic stops, but what can they do? If the perp is uncooperative, simply repeating over and over what you've already said is highly unlikely to work, and could even lead to the person becoming more and more aggressive. Calling for backup and wrenching them out will send them screaming brutality, so there's not alot cops can do.

I dont think its a question of banning the tazer, I think its a question of finding alternative ways of doing things that'll actually work.