Idea concerning further SH series

[tonibamestre]

Hello Commanders,I would like to know if you agree with what could be a new way
to move around the sub in a theorical forward SH editions.So,have you seen Ship Simulator 2008 from VStep? You can turn around,move sidewards and walk ahead and back travelling this way every inch of the station you are in,and not just that,also you are able to climb and descend stairs in order to reach several compartments and decks.
This way,would be interesting that Ubi developers could have this system into consideration to give simmers the best inmersive atmosphere aboard its further units.Also more compartments and stations at high detail could be done.
Lets pray to have a future SH5 close like that.

Let me know your opinnion guys.

[raifg]

I share your idea
Would your prefer in a nuke sub or WWII sub ?

[Peto]

I can understand your desire for this. It would be a nice feature to be able to check out the boat and crew. Still--I would vote against it. The reason is simple: Modelling everything in such detail would take a tremendous amount of effort and could easily detract from the meat & potatos of the sim.

I would rather see that effort put into further AI enhancement/more realism options/more dynamic modelling of the boats (each one would be a little unique--crush depth varies etc). There is much that could be done with escort AI resulting in more of a challenge to escape a counter-attack.

Imagine getting a new command and not knowing exactly what to expect from the boat. How deep will it go? (They all had the same theoretical crush depth but in actuality--they were all different). Boat A takes 3 seconds longer to dive than Boat B and Boat C just can't keep it's engines running (HOR Diesels).

I could go on for pages but I think I've made my point. Not that my point is any more valid than your's!!! It's merely my opinion (And everyone around here has one )!

Peto

[mrbeast]

Originally Posted by Peto

I can understand your desire for this. It would be a nice feature to be able to check out the boat and crew. Still--I would vote against it. The reason is simple: Modelling everything in such detail would take a tremendous amount of effort and could easily detract from the meat & potatos of the sim.

I would rather see that effort put into further AI enhancement/more realism options/more dynamic modelling of the boats (each one would be a little unique--crush depth varies etc). There is much that could be done with escort AI resulting in more of a challenge to escape a counter-attack.

Imagine getting a new command and not knowing exactly what to expect from the boat. How deep will it go? (They all had the same theoretical crush depth but in actuality--they were all different). Boat A takes 3 seconds longer to dive than Boat B and Boat C just can't keep it's engines running (HOR Diesels).

I could go on for pages but I think I've made my point. Not that my point is any more valid than your's!!! It's merely my opinion (And everyone around here has one )!

Peto

Think I'd have to agree with you there Peto. A fully rendered 3D interior for your sub would be cool but it would simply be eye candy and notmuch more. I'd rather see the time and energy go on better external graphics, more and better ship models, better campaign, better AI, etc etc.

Basically I would place quite a few things in the 'To Do' list ahead of creating an entire submarine interior.

Besides when are you going to see all of it?

[Angus89]

My 2 cents is for a truly dynamic alternate history from where sh4 leaves off. What if Germany didnt lose in Russia. what if Russia stayed neutral or even axis. What if England was forced to go Vichy. What if u-boats did move into the Pacific with support? Not realistic in a 100% vain, but many possibilities for a truly dynamic campaign. Let me be an influence on history. Just a thought. Till then, Lurker is sending my s-boat on another mission to some deserted piece of ocean where I can destroy sampans till my gun barrel melts.

[raifg]

Question of point of view
I understand that modeling the interior would be a full time job, but if you consider that the main goal of the game is to simulate the life in a sub, it is a useful work.
It depend on your interest:
- a navy battle => the develoment team would have to pay attention at the exterior skin of the boat and the behaviour of ships in all the sea conditions...
- a simulation of life (like Sim's for instance), where your are the chief of the crew and not the captain (I mean You are passive in the battle, You only execute the oders of your captain, quicly and with efficiency) paying attention at the interior is a necessity...

I think the second point of view have to be expanded because I find that the managament of the crew in SH4 is too simple and has a small interaction with the rest of the game

[mrbeast]

Originally Posted by raifg

Question of point of view
I understand that modeling the interior would be a full time job, but if you consider that the main goal of the game is to simulate the life in a sub, it is a useful work.
It depend on your interest:
- a navy battle => the develoment team would have to pay attention at the exterior skin of the boat and the behaviour of ships in all the sea conditions...
- a simulation of life (like Sim's for instance), where your are the chief of the crew and not the captain (I mean You are passive in the battle, You only execute the oders of your captain, quicly and with efficiency) paying attention at the interior is a necessity...

I think the second point of view have to be expanded because I find that the managament of the crew in SH4 is too simple and has a small interaction with the rest of the game

My point of view is the opposite.

Adding a more complex crew management system a la SH3 is a destraction from the game. SH4 is a naval combat simulation not just a maritime simulation like some the civilian ship simulators out there. IMO therefore, its about hunting down and destroying the enemy not fiddling about endlessly moving crew members from one compartement to the next because they feel tired etc.

I think SH4 got the balance just right. The more complex crew management is there if you want to mess about with it but if you don't you can leave the crew to do their thing and they don't stand an endless watch in the engine room until they pass out from fatigue. The rotating watch system has I think a very authentic feel to it.

The fact is that very complex resource management soon becomes a chore and starts to dominate rather than adding immersion. It can very easily become boring and is not really very realistic as you take the role of captain and in RL the skipper would have little to do with the day to day running of the crew and boat.

Thats another reason why a fully rendered hull interior is a little redundant. As the skipper you would probably alternate from your stateroom to the wardroom to the control room to the conning tower and bridge and back again (maybe the head once a day) , seeing little of the rest of the sub unless you were conducting an inspection or their was a problem somewhere in the boat. After an hour or so of play who's going to bother touring the sub on an inspection of the boat? I have a feeling that the novelty of a go anywhere interior would wear off pretty quickly.

I'm not saying that it wouldn't be cool and I think that one or two areas of the boat could be modelled such as the captains quarters for instance. As I posted earlier I'd swap a fully modelled interior of the sub for twice the number of ships currently included and improvements to the AI, campaign etc.

PS Who wants to play as the Chief and who wants to play as the Skipper? I know what rank I would rather play as!

[Torplexed]

I've never understood the desire to see the entire interior of the sub modeled either. It would be interesting from a reference point of view, but I'd probably never visit them while on patrol. What would compell me to visit the pump room...or the manuvering room, or the ship's galley? Am I gonna pretend there is actual chow there? Are the crew's canned animation loops gonna be more interesting elsewhere in the ship?

I get the feeling that some people are more interested in some virtual shipboard social interaction world than in history-based submarine warfare. A game that has to make a profit can really only concentrate on doing one of those subjects well.

[DeepSix]

Not interested in having access to every compartment either - although a "ward room" with an interactive game of bridge or chess would sure be a nice way to get more out of playing at 1:1 time. Not exactly ShipSim '08 but might add something to the atmosphere but without the distraction or dead ends. That is, those who would not use it would also probably not be bothered by having it around, either. Somebody suggested this idea way back when SH4 was in the planning; I still like it.

[tonibamestre]

Well,dont tell me that you are not interested on a state of the art submarine simulator.The only thing developers need is time to build it,they can spend the next 3 or 4 years developing a new amazing sub project with lots new items implemented.If not,have a look at what are doing XSI devs with the still on building stage Fighter Ops.This my friends is going to be the Top of modern fighter simulators,improving and expanding day by day with renewed technology and addons.Even,when the right time arrives it has been told that a Navy Ops is going to be released,and from here I would like from all modern warfare simmers to join our voices a make a little push to see if XSI devs brings us naval warfare to this great project aswell,implementing detailed and full operative sub and surface platforms to interact with the air element.

[John Channing]

Originally Posted by tonibamestre

Well,dont tell me that you are not interested on a state of the art submarine simulator.The only thing developers need is time to build it,they can spend the next 3 or 4 years developing a new amazing sub project with lots new items implemented.If not,have a look at what are doing XSI devs with the still on building stage Fighter Ops.This my friends is going to be the Top of modern fighter simulators,improving and expanding day by day with renewed technology and addons.Even,when the right time arrives it has been told that a Navy Ops is going to be released,and from here I would like from all modern warfare simmers to join our voices a make a little push to see if XSI devs brings us naval warfare to this great project aswell,implementing detailed and full operative sub and surface platforms to interact with the air element.

The difference, of course, is that Fighter Ops, which seems to have been in development for almost 4 years, is little more than some models and skins while UbiSoft has turned out 2 Naval Sims in that time (and soon to be a third).

I prefer games I can play and not just read about.

JCC

[SteminDemon13]

I say the SH series should remain historical. If you want alternate history that is what enigma is for.

[mrbeast]

Originally Posted by SteminDemon13

I say the SH series should remain historical. If you want alternate history that is what enigma is for.

Yep and look how 'good' enigma was.....think installed it played it and uinstalled it all in the space of about 30 minutes!

Never to see the light of day again!

[SteminDemon13]

Originally Posted by mrbeast

Yep and look how 'good' enigma was.....think installed it played it and uinstalled it all in the space of about 30 minutes!

Never to see the light of day again!

:rotfl: They tried though, I too have played it and have not yearned to play it since. I am going to BK for Thanksgiving and my copy of destroyer command is there. I've been itching to play that game for a while now. One good game (once the CD key issue is solved by tech support and patched) that I do play is Superpower 2. It like SH4 had it's issues in the begining, but after it everything it turned out to be a fairly interesting game.

[mrbeast]

Originally Posted by SteminDemon13

:rotfl: They tried though, I too have played it and have not yearned to play it since. I am going to BK for Thanksgiving and my copy of destroyer command is there. I've been itching to play that game for a while now. One good game (once the CD key issue is solved by tech support and patched) that I do play is Superpower 2. It like SH4 had it's issues in the begining, but after it everything it turned out to be a fairly interesting game.

For sure marks for effort but the final product was very much on the forgetable side unfortunately. :hmm: