The war as we saw it

[Ducimus]

I make no statement other than its an Intresting read:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/op...ll&oref=slogin

[Letum]

I make no statement at all.

[TteFAboB]

I make all the unstated statements.

[The Avon Lady]

I make contrarian links to sites such as Michael Yon's Online Magazine and Michael Totten's blog. There are numerous other such first hand reports. Go figure.

But the last place I go for when it comes to impartiality and journalistic standards nowdays is the NY Times, which has turned into a crude mouthpiece for leftist agendas. They've become pathetic at covering up and excusing their errors, inaccuracies and suppression of stories that don't suit their flavor of the day.

[Camaero]

I state the obvious.

[The Avon Lady]

Read here and you can see that even the Democrats themselves are toning down their rhetoric in the face of reports coming back from Iraq, including fact-finding trips by Democrats, that indicate that things aren't as bad as the leftist mass media continues to make things appear.

Standard Iraq War indemnification clause: I strongly disagree with some but not all of the reasons given for this war and especially with some of its declared long term goals and with some of the strategies used to date.

[Ducimus]

Ok so now ill say something.

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

But the last place I go for when it comes to impartiality and journalistic standards nowdays is the NY Times, which has turned into a crude mouthpiece for leftist agendas. .

Simillary, i typically dont read ANY link you post because i immediatly assume it's a mouthpiece for neocon warhawks. Since your always very gungho about anything dealing with American money or lives being spent in the middle east, what else is one to think?

Regardless of where that piece is posted, if its written by boots on the ground, PEOPLE THAT ARE THERE. (which we are not, therego we have no place to talk), then its a very intresting and enlighting. Its the people on the ground who have the best feel for whats going on, not some stuffed suit/uniform behind a desk somewhere, and most certainly not armchair politicians or armchair generals who are hot to trot waste american dollars and lives with absolutley no risk to themselves.

I'll say straight up to anyone who's pro war. ENLIST NOW! Of course , that requires one to "put their money where their mouth is", something alot of necon's are unwilling, or unable to do. Which in my mind, makes their pro war stances or opinions, nothing but alot of hot air.

In summary, i respect the opinion of the guys on the ground, who have to get up everyday and face that crock of **** that spoiled frat boy got us into. Im sure they're opinions vary depending on who you talk to, but in the end, its their opinons that should matter the most, regardless of where you hear it from.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Ok so now ill say something.

Understatement.

Simillary, i typically dont read ANY link you post because i immediatly assume it's a mouthpiece for neocon warhawks.

But these 2 bloggers aren't but don't bother clicking. You might learn something.

Regardless of where that piece is posted, if its written by boots on the ground, PEOPLE THAT ARE THERE. (which we are not, therego we have no place to talk), then its a very intresting and enlighting. Its the people on the ground who have the best feel for whats going on, not some stuffed suit/uniform behind a desk somewhere, and most certainly not armchair politicians or armchair generals who are hot to trot waste american dollars and lives with absolutley no risk to themselves.

Um. Both articles I linked to are from persons that were in Iraq and quote verbatim the US personnel they accompanied. This in addition to getting Iraqi citizen's side of the story, too. Or are Iraqis all "Neocons", too?

My whole point was that there are tons of contrary eye witness first hand write ups out there.

I'll say straight up to anyone who's pro war. ENLIST NOW!

How dumb. You mean no one's entitled to support the troops nor US military policy unless they enlist?

Of course , that requires one to "put their money where their mouth is", something alot of necon's are unwilling, or unable to do.

Yeh. No Republicans or conservative minded soldiers in the US military. Only children of retired SDS and Weatherman groupies sign up nowadays.

In summary, i respect the opinion of the guys on the ground, who have to get up everyday and face that crock of **** that spoiled frat boy got us into. Im sure they're opinions vary depending on who you talk to, but in the end, its their opinons that should matter the most, regardless of where you hear it from.

Like Vets for Freedom?

And again, the articles I linked to are chock full of direct interview quotes with US personnel. But, again, don't bother.

[Onkel Neal]

Reminder: no name-calling.

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

I make contrarian links to sites such as Michael Yon's Online Magazine and Michael Totten's blog. There are numerous other such first hand reports. Go figure.

These don't say anything. Yon's says absolutely nothing. Tottens blog is one incident that doesn't really say anything either just a buddy thing. The 82nd AB troops gave an overall view of the situation as they see it. They could probably even tell you a few feel good stories too but that doesn't change what's happening overall.

Read here and you can see that even the Democrats themselves are toning down their rhetoric in the face of reports coming back from Iraq,

That talks about a fast pullout.

Whats going to happen at the end of the troop surge mission? What have we accomplished? The surge was to give the Iraqi political system a breathing space to get their s#!t together. That hasn't happened has it?
But hey! We have a couple of feel good stories to show for it.

They should have listened to Gen. Petraeus from the get-go instead of ignoring him until it was too late. They shouldn't have put 400,000 ready made insurgents onto the streets.
The Iraqi's need to settle their problems starting with the political side and that ain't gonna happen unless they are made to make it happen themselves which ain't gonna happen with U.S. troops there.

[mbthegreat]

ahhh the forum just wL

[Mush Martin]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Simillary, i typically dont read ANY link you post because i immediatly assume it's a mouthpiece for neocon warhawks.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

[

How dumb. You mean no one's entitled to support the troops nor US military policy unless they enlist?

Pro war, not pro troops!

Is everyone ready for a Shia dictatorship? That is the result of redeployment.

Last I checked Iran was Shia. Are you ready for a 'greater Iranian Middle East'?

Do you feel comfortable with the statements coming from Tehran? Is a nuclear Islamic Republic comforting? Is another, far more devastating war give you a warm fuzzy? If so by all means support the draw down before Iraq has a stable government.

If you are ready for the above may God help us.