Button or key request--decks awash

[Rockin Robbins]

Here's my crazy idea. I like to run around in the happy hunting ground of Nip aircraft with decks awash: keel depth 35ft. This way I keep running on diesel, I can use my radar and the splash keeps my lookouts cool in the hot sun. Wouldn't it be nice to have a button or key command to dive or ascend to 35 ft? Also, this depth might be different for different models of subs, so the same command should work for decks awash on all the different classes of submarines. That's my suggestion. I will now put on my helmet and you may all begin throwing rocks.

[Sailor Steve]

You know of course if they could really have done it that way they would have. Decks Awash greatly increased the chance of flooding the engines (literally). It was usually used to lower the profile while approaching enemy traffic in calm seas at night, and necessitated the use of batteries and low speeds.

[panthercules]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

You know of course if they could really have done it that way they would have. Decks Awash greatly increased the chance of flooding the engines (literally). It was usually used to lower the profile while approaching enemy traffic in calm seas at night, and necessitated the use of batteries and low speeds.

HMMM... I'd been tinkering with this in 1.2 along the lines of how it was done in SH3 (by changing the surfaced depth setting in the .cfg files or something, IIRC), and have had some success in running at about 26-27 feet in my Salmon class and having it look a bit like decks awash would probably have looked. Somewhere around 28-30 feet seems to be the point at which my lookouts go below, although I can still stay up on the bridge by myself.

Your post above made me wonder - would there be a way to mod the depth at which the diesels switch over to the electric motors so you could still be "surfaced"/decks awash but running on electrics? It'd be great if you could separate that from the crew heading below, but even if the crew going below is hardcoded to happen at the same time, at least you could conn the boat yourself while truly decks awash during that sort of night/calm approach.

[Rockin Robbins]

Seems like I've read of running on diesels while decks were awash. I'll have to skim my library and find out what the various captains have to say. It seems to me that in the game the depth the diesels quit and electrics kick in is somewhat variable between 25 and 35 feet. I just switched from a Tambor to a Gato, so I'm not sure about the Gato yet. It's a great way to slink around in the daytime preserving full batteries for the attack and evasion to follow. But I better hit the books. I like to stick to historical methods, even when the game lets you differ.

Speaking of historical methods, I was reading "Thunder Below" by Admiral Eugene Fluckey, personally given and autographed by the Admiral to my wife's grandfather, Warren R Watkins, who served aboard USS Kraken. I had thought this was a tactic of the Flasher, but now find instead it was Capt Fluckey of the USS Barb that would extend his search radius by fully extending his observation scope while on the surface. He called this "high periscope watch" and it was SOP aboard his boat. He credited it for doubling his effective search radius. Unfortunately when I try the technique in SH3 and SH4 I find no advantage. Anybody else try this method for extending the horizon, and what did you find?

[Payoff]

As the creator of the Decks Awash mod for SHIII (toots own horn ) I have found the depth keeping in SHIV since P 1.3 is great. She'll hold steady at just about any shallow depth now.You can always map a key to snorkel depth. Then adjust the depth in the sub.cfg file for that sub, and get that same depth every time.

[wetwarev7]

You do realize of course, that by running with 'decks awash', you increase the chances of one of your crewmen being knocked out of the tub by a leaping sturgeon?

I'm all about crew safety....

[CaptainCox]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

You know of course if they could really have done it that way they would have. Decks Awash greatly increased the chance of flooding the engines (literally). It was usually used to lower the profile while approaching enemy traffic in calm seas at night, and necessitated the use of batteries and low speeds.

I am currently listening to an Audio Book called "Wolfs Of the Sea" Its written by 2 Swedish Historians, and is absolutely awesome! Its the stories from "Prien" to "Johny Walker" all is there. And the episode when "Otto Kretschmer" meets hes destiny with HMS Walker and HMS Vanoc, he attacks a convoy exactly like this. Night, calm sea, only the turret above the surface...decks awash

But Kretschmer was a fox that sort of invented night time surface attacks...in the end he caught it because of an officer that missundertood an order and ordered to dive. The "U-Boot" was directly picked up by "ASDIC" and that was that. He spent 5 years as a prisoner of war in Canada. Back to topic

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Seems like I've read of running on diesels while decks were awash.

They certainly could do that and I'm sure some did use the diesels in that condition. My real objection is that I've been involved with all kinds of gamers over the last 30 years, and my great frustration (as with the deck gun ROF threads) isn't that some things were or weren't possible; it's that most gamers I've ever dealt with don't really care what was done, they just want whatever helps them the most.

I think that surface 'decks awash' attacks used electrics mainly because of the noise and smoke factors. One thing I am sure of is that they didn't "run all over the oceans" in that condition, just so they could dive faster.

[Peto]

I agree. Decks awash=loss of bouyancy=a big wave poops you and you're submerged minus one watch crew. From the reading/interviews/studying I've done I'd have to say decks awash was only used for attacks--and almost always with electrics engaged.

However--it wasn't uncommon to be "a little" flooded down while on routine patrol. The tanks were typically blown completelt dry only when speed and full fuel efficiency was required such as an end-around or in transit. So you can keep a little water in your negative bouyancy tank . Even a couple feet can help when evading pesky bees.

Cheers!

Peto

PS: The reason most skippers dove all day wasn't just so they woul;dn't get bombed by aircraft but to avoid detection altogether so shipping wouldn't be routed around their location. Not that the AI is aware of that in the game--it's just an observation.

[Bill Nichols]

Come on, guys. Don't you remember the movie where John Wayne tied himself to the periscope shears and conned the boat at periscope depth while in Tokyo Bay?

[Farinhir]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

They certainly could do that and I'm sure some did use the diesels in that condition. [...] One thing I am sure of is that they didn't "run all over the oceans" in that condition, just so they could dive faster.

My responce to that is an excerpt from the service history of the Dutch boat, K XV.

18 Dec 1941: K XV sails in the direction of the Discovery East Bank. The submarine transits with decks awash (airplane attacks are expected) with a speed of 11.9 kts to the South China Sea. (see 15 Dec 1941, radio message #389 1215-1402)

Source: http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/boats/boat_kxv.htm

This shows that at least the Dutch were traveling this way sometimes at least when planes were expected. This, however, does not indicate (though it could be assumed by the speed) that they were using their diesels. As far as I can tell, the running of decks awash with the diesels did not begin until the creation of the snorkel. If you can find it, you should try to read the article, "Give Credit Where Credit Is Due" by Mark C. Jones. This appears in "The Journal of Military History - Volume 69, Number 4, October 2005, pp. 987-1012". This article describes the role of the Dutch in the invention of the sub snorkel (and how the Germans took their idea from the Dutch).

Well, Have fun
~F~

[wetwarev7]

Originally Posted by Peto

PS: The reason most skippers dove all day wasn't just so they woul;dn't get bombed by aircraft but to avoid detection altogether so shipping wouldn't be routed around their location. Not that the AI is aware of that in the game--it's just an observation.

I never thought of that.....:hmm:

[Rockin Robbins]

Wow! What a great discussion this has turned out to be. Yup, I totally agree that we should confine ourselves to historical methods. And history seems to bear out that this is a limited tactic used in special conditions, always in calm seas, usually while engaged in an attack, usually on electrics. Unfortunately, the game has no system to keep us honest, so we're all on the honor system. The game's safety system is the very high fuel consumption while in this condition. Beware of that! The same throttle position for 12 knots on the surface gets you less than 5 flooded down.

I don't think the game is fun when you cheat anyway. I'm playing to experience the same frustrations and trials that the real skippers did. I'm going to experiment with partially flooded down states to see what it does to dive times. 25' or so should keep the deck dry but allow fast dives, but like everything else in the game, experimentation is called for. I always crash dive and catch her at periscope depth as best I can. Usually I overshoot by 10' or less, so that's not too bad.

I agree that depth control is pretty good, although if I'm descending from the surface sometimes I'll unexpectedly pop back up to the surface. If I'm going to be decks awash I like to ascend into it and have had no trim problems that way.

Anybody try the "high periscope watch" technique on the surface, ala Gene Fluckey? I messed around with it a bit last night with a convoy on the horizon and I didn't think I gained anything from the scope 20' in the air that I couldn't see from the deck. That's a shame if true.

Always looking for a historically justified edge!