Muslims

[Onkel Neal]

I may be asking for trouble, but people, please show some taste and sense; Islam is a religon, practiced by people, same as Judaism, Christianity, etc. All religons have some harsh elements in their history and holy books. Just like many modern Jews and Christians, some Muslims ignore those parts. I am not starting a debate on the merits of one religon over another, but come on, for Pete's sake. We know your religon is the one, true path to enlightenment, but don't beat us in the head with it.

Not all Muslims are evil jihadists. Many are uneducated people living in cultural wastelands, sort of like Europe in the Middle Ages. Some are very educated, bright, thoughtful members of society. There are a few we all know in every day life, and on this forum. Show a little respect to your fellow Subsimmer and don't bash his religon (or non-religon) endlessly.

As for the Muslim terrorists and violent activists, I do not excuse them or feel much like tolerating them, but in this forum, be clear and distinguish between those who practice hate and violence, and those who do not.

best,
Neal

[SUBMAN1]

I hear ya, but I don't see any Hindus or Bhudists running around on Jihad! That is why no one talks about those other religions. When Islamists run around on Jihad, their fellow Muslims don't even denouce it! That is why everyone trashes on the religion.

-S

[Onkel Neal]

Sure, and I understand that. But we don't have to be just like everyone else.

[Officerpuppy]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

As for the Muslim terrorists and violent activists, I do not excuse them or feel much like tolerating them, but in this forum, be clear and distinguish between those who practice hate and violence, and those who do not.

best,
Neal

Hear hear

[dean_acheson]

This would be a good forum to post a link to CAIR's denunciation of 9/11.

Oh, wait.....

[Boris]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

I hear ya, but I don't see any Hindus or Bhudists running around on Jihad! That is why no one talks about those other religions. When Islamists run around on Jihad, their fellow Muslims don't even denouce it! That is why everyone trashes on the religion.

-S

Don't comment on things you have no idea about. The islamic world is very large and very complex. Who says their 'fellow' Muslims don't denounce the terrorists? I know Muslims who would take offence to being called 'fellows' with terrorists. My Flatmate Kemel doesn't even consider islamic terrorists to be Muslims at all, preferring to think of them as some sort of seperatist sect.

[Letum]

Anyone should be able to come here to engage their enthusiasm for subs without feeling that hostilities are directed at them because of their religion/race/skintone/gender etc.

If I was Islamic I would not find the Subsim forums a welcoming place.
This has to be changed.


I wouldnt mind a total ban on all religion related posts. There are other places to talk about such things.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by Letum

If I was Islamic I would not find the Subsim forums a welcoming place.

qft.

[joea]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

qft.

QFTx2

[Konovalov]

Regarding what Letum said above, I can vouch for that from personal experience. To my knowledge there were half a dozen Subsim members who are Muslim that once populated this forum. However given the tone of these forums towards Muslims and Islam over the last couple of years it is not surprising really that I appear to be the only one left as I haven't heard from or seen any activity from any of these members for quite a few months and in a couple of cases years.

I fully agree with every thing written by Neal in his post. Obviously I could leave this forum because quite often it feels like being beaten over the head time and time again. However I have been a member at Subsim for almost five years and have contributed heavily to the General, Sub Command and SHIII topic forums and for me this is really my online/cyberspace home. At the end of the day we are all sub simmers.

Regards,

Konovalov.

Edit: What is QFT short for?

[Tchocky]

Quoted For Truth

[Konovalov]

Understood.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by Letum

I wouldnt mind a total ban on all religion related posts.

Aw hang on, I'm having a lot of fun with Buddhism

[Oberon]

Hurrah! The big man speaks what 75% of us have thought.

Whilst I agree that Islam certainly isn't turning out to be a 'religion of peace', it's certainly not been the first, and I doubt very much it'll be the last. We've lost too many members in the General Topics crusades.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Konovalov

At the end of the day we are all sub simmers.

This really comes to the point. This is SUBSIM.com, not politicalcrossfire.com, or politicalhotwire.com or itsallpolitics.com. This is a website for combat simulations, specifically naval and submarine simulations. I have always seen the hierarchy as follows:

Tier 1: SHIV, SHIII, SHII, DW, Sub Command and Classic Subsims
This is why you are here. You typed 'submarine simulations' into Google and ended up at SubSim. We all want the the latest mods, patches and release information, and SubSim is the place for that.

Tier 2: Other Naval Sims, Flight Sims, Other computer sims/games
Hey, most simulation enthusiasts like more than just submarine simulations. I, for example, am an avid MFS player. The 747-400 is my plane of choice. I'll even admit to being a frequent player of Medieval 2, despite its shortcomings. They're still simulations.

Tier 3: General Topics
This is something to do when waiting for SHIV patch 1.3, or GWX 1.04, or the latest DW enhancement from LuftWulf, or when just waiting for that next contact report.

So what's your point, Tak? It's this: Too many people seem to have this inverted. Yes, there is a slot here for political or religious discussion. However, that slot is peripheral at best. This is not a political forum. This can be a place to discuss daily issues, but it is not the place to push your particular political agenda. There are members here for whom this seems to be the primary modus operandi, and this, to me, is backwards.

In short, discuss off topic items at will, but do understand that this forum has a limited scope in that regard, and you are very unlikely to change anyone's mind here. Go to the afforementioned sites for that type of discussion.