human fishes

[Skybird]

Interesting experiment in Germany: a group of 200 people in a hall, all they do was walking around at will, but without communicating. Biologists and behavioral scientists monitored and analysed the movement patterns and were able to show (like they already predicted in a model two years earlier), that movement patterns of human crowds show self-emerging patterns that are exactly like those of fish swarms in the ocean. they also were able to demonstrate that the number of "leaders" to organize the dynamic structure of this pattern at will is around 5% - also exactly predicated by their model. Biologists see this experiment as a highly significant evidence that man had his origin in the oceans. Finally they tested what happens if one "swarm" with many leaders is ordered to walk in oppostition to movement patterns of the other "swarm" with less leaders (the leaders ob both swarms were told to do so, while the crowd did not know). It was expected that sooner or latter the pattern of the stronger swarm would dominate that of the weaker one. Wrong. Instead there was an increasing fluctuation of swarm members switching teams, or switching sides repeatedly. The leaders of the stronger swarm were not able to dominate, by independant fluctuation of team members the dynamic movement pattern got a will of it's own, it seems.

I just summed it up. Keep in mind when thinking about it that participants were not allowed to communcate with each other, and did not know what it was about. They were just told to move around at will.

German text only (but it will be published in international science magazine as well in the future):

http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/n...471179,00.html

[Letum]

I used to mess around with some nifty mathmatical swarm simulators in excell in the '90s.
It's a very intresting topic.

[Mush Martin]

well summarized I Love succinctness.

MM

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Letum

I used to mess around with some nifty mathmatical swarm simulators in excell in the '90s.
It's a very intresting topic.

Interesting yes, but I fail to be able to do the mathematics. I am more interested in swarm intelligence per se. If only all members keep the same speed and distance to each other, it needs very limited leadership only to keep the swarm together and direct it's moving directions.

[IRONxMortlock]

Biologists see this experiment as a highly significant evidence that man had his origin in the oceans.

I'm no evolution denier but I think most primates are so removed from their ocean based pasts that this is very big claim to make based upon this study. I think it has more to do with the benefits of "swarm" group formations.

It's very interesting none the less and is just another example of how little we actually know and understand of ourselves and the world/universe which surrounds us. Will we ever get to point where we understand everything in its entirety?
________
Colorado Marijuana Dispensaries

[ASWnut101]

Shouldn't the title of this thread be "Human Fish," not "Human Fishes?"



Bye, bye!

[August]

It says the participants were not allowed to communicate with each other, i assume that meant verbally. What about non verbal communication?

[Letum]

Originally Posted by IRONxMortlock

I'm no evolution denier but I think most primates are so removed from their ocean based pasts that this is very big claim to make based upon this study. I think it has more to do with the benefits of "swarm" group formations.

It's very interesting none the less and is just another example of how little we actually know and understand of ourselves and the world/universe which surrounds us. Will we ever get to point where we understand everything in its entirety?

Oh yer, there is no way people behave like this because they are still part fish!
We do share features with fish. i.e. we have simple gills for a time in the womb and the top of our spine/base of brain is very similar to the brain of a fish. However I don't believe we have redundant fish behaviors!

I would guess that out spamming tendency comes from a mix of the way we "run with the heard" in emergencies to avoid predators or just get from A to B in a busy street with out colliding with everyone and the way we keep personal space.

[TteFAboB]

Were the participants allowed to change the light bulbs in the room for fluorescent models? Did they do it spontaneously?

Many fish deep down the ocean have bioluminescence properties. Since man is cousin to fish, we generally have the instinct to replace incandescent light bulbs for fluorescent ones because they feel more natural to the bioluminescence of our ancestors than Edison's bulbs.

[Skybird]

As I understand it, Leturm, the point is that fish swarms behave differently in movement and finding a common movement direction than a heard of cattle or a pack of wolves, or another land based animal. It also appears that at times the swarm makes a decision by itself how to behave/move/where to go, unaffected by the intentions of leaders. In the third experiment, where two factions of different strength/different number of leaders were formed, the leaders of both camps were not able to control the behaviour of their "swarms". Something collective happened instead, and took over control of how the swarm moved and behaved - the system started to fluctuate, instead of both groups just pressing to keep or even just find a common direction.

[August]

I think their definition of leader is faulty. A person or group can follow another for a time but that doesn't mean they acknowledge them as a leader. In the animal world isn't the leader of a group usually the one who has proven themselves to be the best hunter or the most dominate? That type of leader is going to generate an entirely different response than one who others just naturally begin to walk behind in a crowd.

What they are calling leaders, i might call the big guy we follow close behind when moving through a crowd because he makes a handy plow, nothing more. It's small wonder when these leaders were ordered to go against the flow, thus negating the advantages of following them, that the group refused to follow.

[Skybird]

August, again : it is about fish swarms, no land-living animals of limited numbers. What you say is true for wolves, for example, or gorialls - family clans. But if you have a "group" of ten thousand buffalos, i also have doubts that at the top there is the one bull stronger than all other several hundred bulls.
Have you never noticed the synchronicity of movement in a huge swarm of let's say sardines? For the individual one it would be impossible to "lead" that ballet.

The only order that was given to the subjects was that they shall not communicate verbally, or intentional-nonverbally. While the "leaders" just were told to move all in the same direction.

I wonder if this swarm-behavior could also be compared to the behavior of fluids.