Does anyone believe that Cheney is right?

[TarJak]

Just interested to know what other people think of the premise that Cheney is espousing here:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...734021090.html

[Tchocky]

Earlier Mr Rudd said among the protesters against Mr Cheney he had seen in television footage were "a bunch of violent ferals, and they should expect absolutely no sympathy from the police".

Don't tell me he got elected

As regards Cheney's remarks, it's immateriel. He's got a terrible record for prophecy, and his recollection of the past isnt too sharp either (see the Wolf Blitzer interview for more). If the terrorists want an empire, fine. The problem with this statement (and your poll) is that there isnt one group called The Terrorists. A lot of the fighting in Iraq is between rival illegal factions. Afghanistan may be different, but aren't we always being told that Iraq is a 'central front"? Cheney should know better and quit shooting his mouth off.

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Don't tell me he got elected

Who Rudd or Cheney?

Rudd is now the leader of the opposition here in Australia, Howard is still Prime Minister.

Gotta agree on Cheney's prophesising. not much or a record and if he's following "intelligence" reports again, let's not talk about where that got us...

[Tchocky]

Rudd, thats f*cking ridiculous. The leader of Autralia's opposition making such statements. I hope newspapers & TV are ripping him a new one


I think Cheney's following his own intelligence reports :p

[CCIP]

Sounds like someone is trying to turn the War on Terror into a Star Wars spinoff. The terrorists have had their "Empire" to fight for years, the Americans can't be too far behind on imagination, can they? :hmm:


Ah, the good old construction of the evil empire. Yankees miss the Soviet one, do they?

[TarJak]

The media loves Rudd at the moment because he is leading in the polls.

Also at the moment anything that is anti-Iraq war is being lapped up here as there is a strong feeling that we should pull out. So go figure.

Cheney intelligence? Is that the same anachronism as military intelligence?:rotfl:

[August]

I look forward to Avon Ladys reply in this thread.

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by August

I look forward to Avon Ladys reply in this thread.

Jihadwatch links ahoy! :p

Seriously though, I think this is a badly worded idea. While I think both terrorism and an aggressive spread of Muslim conservative culture in the west are problems and even threats, I think it's at best paranoid and at worst manipulative to produce something that far-fetched.

[TarJak]

It is certainly a polarising concept, hence the binary poll. But that's politics for you particularly the politics of religious fanaticism on both sides of the argument.

[August]

Originally Posted by CCIP

Jihadwatch links ahoy! :p

Seriously though, I think this is a badly worded idea. While I think both terrorism and an aggressive spread of Muslim conservative culture in the west are problems and even threats, I think it's at best paranoid and at worst manipulative to produce something that far-fetched.

How so? A world where Islam rules over all is a goal that has often been mentioned by various terrorist potentates from bin Laden on down. If it's a threat as you say then why is Cheney so wrong here? Is it the message or is it because it's Cheney thats saying it?

[Tchocky]

Well, for a start Cheney is simplfying a very complex issue. Islamic fundamentalist terrorist groups don't have caucuses, many fight amongst themselves. Labeling them terrorists doesn't help either. It's correct,but not exclusive. Terror is a tactic, after all. "Shock & Awe", anyone?
And, he's misrepresenting a current event. No-one is fighting a Caliphaste stretching across the globe, it's a messy, dirty war in dusty streets and mountains.

[U-533]

Yes!... I believe if they are allowed to they will have an Empire here on this planet...

They will not be able to move any further, because a religion that uses death to gain paradise can not stand any test of itself or will it allow for technical research beyooond killing infedels or anyone that doesn't believe as they believe.

So ...yes, if WE allow it they will have thier Empire.

[baggygreen]

ccip.. farfetched as it may seem, when I was back at school I used to have a good mate who was sent with his father to Indonesia to work as an attache, focussing on education. His old man spent a lot of time touring schools, reviewing their syllabussessssssseseesessss, and in each and every single religious school, every geography text that he came across labelled northern australia (draw a line due west from brisbane) as southern indonesia.

And this was being taught to an entire generation of kids who went to these schools with a religious base - and that was only 10 years ago. What is worrying is these schools were generally the altternative educational option for those of lesser means, which lets face it, is the majority in indonesia. It was this which persuaded me to major in Indonesian, too.

So, lets summarise and paraphrase to this point - In the largest muslim country in the world, almost an entire generation of kids were brought up in religious schools in which it was taught that non-believers were occupying islamic lands, and taught that this must stop! Very very worrying.

Furthermore, some people might recall a while ago i posted in a large, long-since locked (i think?) thread about the distinct possibility of Iran and iraq becoming one great nation were foreign forces to leave. Sitting aside both sides of the worlds big oil route, they would hold considerable power - not to mention dwarf the other gulf states, who would be threatened into submission - suddenly you've got the gulf under the complete control of a select few rulers.... pretty close to a caliphate if you ask me! from there it is only a couple of steps to the east to link up with Indonesia, and look at that you've got a nation spanning half the world, controlling resources and holding a lot of political sway.

That, unfortunately, is a lot more likely than people may like to think!

[Boris]

Baggygreen, If what you say is true, then it's very worrying indeed. But as far as Muslims go, most indonesians are fairly liberal and hardly religious. Of course there have been extemeist groups. I'd like to confirm this with an Indonesian, interesting.

As for Dick Cheney, I think he wants another Cold War. His kind of rhetoric is very reminiscent of McCarthyism. It's alarmist, and designed to scare.

[baggygreen]

I know several indonesians, alas they are somewhat more fortunate of birth and were sent to private centres of learning... more politically correct ones, shall we say. I do intend on travelling there in the near future, which would be a good opportunity to find out for myself if this story is true or not. But like you said, worrying if true!

Good comparison between cheney and mccarthy, too. Nice link, wish id noticed it!