What a sad christmas present from the state :(

[Gorduz]

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/ur...cle1582524.ece

This tells about a US reserve soldier, who served 18 months in afgahnistan, and then after finally getting home for christmas got the notice that he has to go to iraq. How long time do you have to serve in the states? I se why the police shot him, he did have a gun pointing at them. But It's to bad when the war starts taking casualties back home.

sorry I couldn't find a english article.

[Enigma]

LEONARDTOWN, Maryland (AP) -- An Army Reservist despondent about being sent to Iraq was killed by police during a 14-hour standoff that began Christmas night when family members told authorities he was armed and threatening to kill himself.
James Emerick Dean, 28, had barricaded himself inside his father's house with several weapons Monday night, family members told police. He later told officers he would shoot anyone who entered the house. His father was not home at the time.
Around noon Tuesday, while police were preparing to use tear gas to force Dean out of the home, Dean came to the front door and pointed his weapon at an officer, St. Mary's County Sheriff Tim Cameron said. Another deputy shot Dean once, killing him.
Dean had already served 18 months in Afghanistan and was despondent after learning recently that he would be deployed to Iraq, family members told police.
During the standoff, Dean fired several shots at police, including one that struck a car where a deputy sat. The officer was not injured.
Cameron did not know what reserve unit Dean served in.
Wanda Matthews, who lives next door to Dean's father, told the Washington Post she knew the young man was depressed about heading to Iraq.
"His dad told me that he didn't want to go to war," Matthews said. "He had already been out there and didn't want to go again."

[dean_acheson]

Where did this story come from?

I get nothing under the name in google, and I haven't heard anything in the U.S. news, which I find odd.

[Cpt. Stewker]

You have 4 years to serve if you join. Joining is entirely voluntary.

I support my military 100% but I do not respect or support soldiers like this young man, who after joining the service voluntarily, decide to turn coat. Or like in this case, come home and become a threat to his family and community. If you cannot follow orders that may and probably will bring you into harms way (this is the military) DO NOT JOIN THE MILITARY.

EDIT: The title of this thread is misleading. If anything, this was a sad christmas gift from the soldier.

[Enigma]

I got it from CNN.....

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/27/res....ap/index.html

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by Cpt. Stewker

You have 4 years to serve if you join. Joining is entirely voluntary.

I support my military 100% but I do not respect or support soldiers like this young man, who after joining the service voluntarily, decide to turn coat. Or like in this case, come home and become a threat to his family and community. If you cannot follow orders that may and probably will bring you into harms way (this is the military) DO NOT JOIN THE MILITARY.

EDIT: The title of this thread is misleading. If anything, this was a sad christmas gift from the soldier.

What branch and when were you in? Curious.

[tycho102]

Originally Posted by Cpt. Stewker

You have 4 years to serve if you join.

Negative.

You sign for 8, all enlisted sign for 8. There is a clause in the contract that states the anticipated number of active years -- which can be changed at the whim of the Commander-in-Chief -- but cannot be more than the total on the contract (which starts at 8). High end rates and MOS sign for 6/2 (active/inactive). Mid end sign for 4/4, and non-rates are 3/5 or 2/6. Works the exact same way in the Army and Airforce, but inside that 8 years, I don't know the specifics like I do the Navy and Marines.


I can understand the pressure on this guy. The rules-of-engagement suck, which is why I want our troops out -- I am done with the "Winning Hearts and Minds™" strategy for the rest of my life.

[Enigma]

support my military 100% but I do not respect or support soldiers like this young man, who after joining the service voluntarily, decide to turn coat. Or like in this case, come home and become a threat to his family and community. If you cannot follow orders that may and probably will bring you into harms way (this is the military) DO NOT JOIN THE MILITARY

While I agree in theory, we know that alot of people go into combat or combat zones, and come back absolutly bat ****. I cant speak for this case, but I think barricading yourself in a house and shooting at cops equals being a little on edge.....no?
It's a terrible thing that happened to this guy, either way. It doesnt make him a turn coat.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by tycho102

I can understand the pressure on this guy. The rules-of-engagement suck, which is why I want our troops out -- I am done with the "Winning Hearts and Minds™" strategy for the rest of my life.

That is absurd - the US Army did not even know what "winning hearts and minds" was about when entering Iraq. Not before recently it has started to admit that there are deficits in the US army that needs to be compensated. In Iraq, overall high command should have been left to the British who are far more experienced in this field.

Comparable things could be said about Afghanistan.

Not talking about military mistakes in tactics and strategies and wrong assumptions about the nature of enemies in both theatres here.

Interesting reads:

"The US military is learning from it's mistakes in Iraq:"
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...455165,00.html

"Nowadays," says Army spokesman Stephen Boylan, a colonel with a moustache who served for several years in Germany, "everyone knows that the road to Baghdad leads directly through Leavenworth."
The best way to fully understand Boylan's comment is to take a grueling tour of the 16 schools, institutes and colleges at the fort where about 2,000 young officers enroll each year for special training. The tour passes through windowless conference rooms, classrooms and lecture halls, and it requires enduring hours of slide presentations and talks by generals, historians, diplomats, Vietnam veterans and soldiers serving in Iraq. It also means wading through documents filled with unfamiliar acronyms, but in the end the visitor is left with the feeling that a revolution is being launched here in Fort Leavenworth, one that will radically change the face of the United States military and the wars it will fight in the future. (...) A revolution is underway that will change the face of the US military -- and with it the wars the world has yet to face.

Interview with Gen. David Petraeus:
"We have to raise our sights beyond the range of an M-16"
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...455199,00.html

There is quite a big cultural change going on. We used to say, that if you can do the "big stuff," the big combined arms, high-end, high intensity major combat operations and have a disciplined force, then you can do the so-called "little stuff," too. That turned out to be wrong. (...) What we simply don't want anymore is to give people a checklist of what to do. We want them to think, not memorize. You know, a lot of this is about young officers. But we have to be clear with them, they have to know: You must be a warrior first, that is true, that's why we exist, we exist in many cases to kill or capture the bad guys. But on the other hand, we have to teach them: You're not going to kill your way out of an insurgency. (...) The fight to Bagdad was not easy. It was very, very hard, real people died and bled and we really blew things up, but -- we always knew how to do that, we have it refined to a very high level, we did combined operations that were really at the high end of our business. In fact, you could say that we practiced that stuff by and large for 25, 30 years while we were waiting for the big roll of Soviet tank armies at the Fulda gap or the northern German plain.
But this other stuff, what we used to call the "little stuff" -- the build-up of civil infrastructures, the fight against low-key separatist violence, the dealing with local leaders, it is very, very challenging because it's non-standard and it's definitely not what we have trained for. The demands are very different. When it comes to insurgency, there is no army on the other side, no battalions, the enemy won't expose himself, it's all about intelligence. (...) It also showed the reality of counterinsurgency operations -- which we capture in the soon-to-be-published manual -- that what works today may not work tomorrow. Tactics and approaches must constantly evolve. You know, it's always easy to blow doors down and go in with the machine guns blazing or throw a grenade in. But when you do that you often risk creating more enemies because of the way you conducted the operation.

I probably would disagree over Gen. Patraeus' basic optimism that "things can be done", which may sound pragmatic and optimistic, but to judge that i would need to know more about him and the manual he is preparing. However, he certainly tries to adopt and löearn lessons that are needed to be learned - where as his commander in chief even does not realize that there is something to be learned at all.

Concerning the soldier the topic started about, he has my sympathy. I see him as a victim of betrayed trust in his CIC. He probably joined the military in good willingness and best of intentions and to serve a just cause, like he saw it. That naivety was exploited viciously.

[TteFAboB]

All recruits should get the following brochure after their enlistment:

If you ever wish to desert, go present yourself at the nearest military jail. If you ever go nuts, go to the nearest hospital and ask for strong sedatives untill help arrives. Add a list of prison addresses & psychiatrists phone #s here.

Between the brig and death, I'll take the brig! Here's what I found:

With intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service -- Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 5 years.
Terminated by apprehension -- Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 3 years.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punit.../a/mcm85_2.htm (Go to page 3)

If they allow you to read books in military jail then these few years are piece of cake and far better than death, though doing service in Iraq could be quicker and less of a hassle if you return safe and sound.

[Enigma]

The US conventional forces have always had issues with the 3 block war, or gurrila warfare. Vietnam, Somalia, and now Iraq. Our initial success in Afghanistan was due to the war being waged by guirilla forces of our own, known as the Special Forces.

Just my opinion. :hmm:

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Enigma

The US conventional forces have always had issues with the 3 block war, or gurrila warfare. Vietnam, Somalia, and now Iraq.

Get close and high technology weapons doesnt mean anything, it´s man against another man. You can have 3459837537953 zillion dollar bombers, but they are powerless if the enemy is amongst the civilians / too close to your own men.

Simple as that.

[Cpt. Stewker]

The 4 year remark I made is based what I was told by my local recruitment office. I have talked to my recruiter several times over the last couple years about joining, and what he has told me that the average time spent in the military is 4 years for an enlisted soldier. You may actually sign for 8 but the vast majority of enlisted personnel never end up on serving for that long.

As to what branch I was in, I'm not in the military, I do have several family members currently in and that previously were in various branches though. And as to what date, if you were to look at my birthday that would be obvious, If I was in at the moment, the current date would be right now, so there shouldn't be a "What date were...".

[Gorduz]

This guy has my sympathy. Afgahnistan wasn't easy on him, how well is the psychiatry system for returning soldiers?

Besides, personally i think 8 years is way to long to serve. Much can change in 8 years, fool a 18 year old kid to join with no option for returning or regretting than jail or mental institute. I've heard many bad things about the US military system, but I never took the people saying it seriosly. Perhaps I'll listen better next time.

And how do I change the thead name?

[Enigma]

Get close and high technology weapons doesnt mean anything, it´s man against another man. You can have 3459837537953 zillion dollar bombers, but they are powerless if the enemy is amongst the civilians / too close to your own men.

True. Having said that, however, 10 somali's vs 10 Marines, I know who im putting my money on.