SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - View Single Post

horsa · 05-01-08, 06:33 AM

First the good news.

A surface warfare sim based on SH4 is worth doing, and I hope there is sufficient enthusiasm, skill, momentum and staying power needed to get there. I’d vote with my feet on that one. In that respect I wish you, John W Hamm, all the luck in your campaign to get a core team of enthusiasts going.

I say that first because what follows could well be interpreted as a case for not doing it.

The bad news

Despite what many folk say about how they “can’t wait and would sell their grandmother to get one”, surface warfare has only limited real support in the long run. In the days when there was a surface sim, the Destroyer command forum was a backwater compared with Silent Hunter 2.

It will never be everything you would want it to be. You will inevitably have to work with some very annoying limitations. SH4 was designed around a submarine and it will constantly catch you out.

Then there’s the issue of what type of surface sim is everybody talking about ?
Fleet actions ?
ASW ?

Ironically you may already have hit on the most suitable surface sim to match the game conditions that SH4 imposes on you – commerce raiding. Something like the Graf Spee operates as a lone hunter like the submarine and fits nicely into the existing mission, patrol and campaign structure.

ASW may come a close second but , failing some very ingenious modding, I can’t see how you can currently get round the issue how do DDs depth charge and where are the AI submarines ?

As to fleet actions, which is what many folk mean when they want surface action , they are inherently boring unless you can impose campaign consideration on it. A career progression like you have with subs just won’t do. One engagement just becomes like another. As a novelty item they are fine ( guns blazing etc) but there’s very little room for varied gameplay. I say that very reluctantly because this is the area that most interests me.

So my six penny worth , coming from somebody who has been involved in trying to find the holy grail of surface warfare sims for 6 years or more, is yes do it, but don’t expect a complete solution. Neither should you expect most of the folk who are currently making a lot of noise to be still with you 1 or 2 years further down the track.

Best of luck, John.

05-01-08, 06:33 AM	#4
horsa Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Halifax, England Posts: 502 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 3	First the good news. A surface warfare sim based on SH4 is worth doing, and I hope there is sufficient enthusiasm, skill, momentum and staying power needed to get there. I’d vote with my feet on that one. In that respect I wish you, John W Hamm, all the luck in your campaign to get a core team of enthusiasts going. I say that first because what follows could well be interpreted as a case for not doing it. The bad news Despite what many folk say about how they “can’t wait and would sell their grandmother to get one”, surface warfare has only limited real support in the long run. In the days when there was a surface sim, the Destroyer command forum was a backwater compared with Silent Hunter 2. It will never be everything you would want it to be. You will inevitably have to work with some very annoying limitations. SH4 was designed around a submarine and it will constantly catch you out. Then there’s the issue of what type of surface sim is everybody talking about ? Fleet actions ? ASW ? Ironically you may already have hit on the most suitable surface sim to match the game conditions that SH4 imposes on you – commerce raiding. Something like the Graf Spee operates as a lone hunter like the submarine and fits nicely into the existing mission, patrol and campaign structure. ASW may come a close second but , failing some very ingenious modding, I can’t see how you can currently get round the issue how do DDs depth charge and where are the AI submarines ? As to fleet actions, which is what many folk mean when they want surface action , they are inherently boring unless you can impose campaign consideration on it. A career progression like you have with subs just won’t do. One engagement just becomes like another. As a novelty item they are fine ( guns blazing etc) but there’s very little room for varied gameplay. I say that very reluctantly because this is the area that most interests me. So my six penny worth , coming from somebody who has been involved in trying to find the holy grail of surface warfare sims for 6 years or more, is yes do it, but don’t expect a complete solution. Neither should you expect most of the folk who are currently making a lot of noise to be still with you 1 or 2 years further down the track. Best of luck, John. __________________ "You need to put your behind in the past". Kumba Last edited by horsa; 05-01-08 at 01:24 PM.