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Old 12-07-24, 06:22 PM   #10733
Dargo
Silent Hunter
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorpet View Post
That's funny, in 2000 Mikhail Gorbachev was critical of how the US had expanded NATO right up to Russia's borders despite their initial assurances that they would not do so, citing that the US government could not be trusted. On 9 February 1990 in a phone conversation with James Baker, then the US secretary of state, he set out his position that "a broadening of the NATO zone after german reunification is not acceptable" to which Baker agreed.

Hey you know how history goes in the United States just like in the book 1984.
The myth that there was a promise by Western leaders not to allow new members to join has been circulating for many years, and is actively used in disinformation campaigns by the Kremlin since the start of the Russian war against Ukraine. While records show that in the initial stages of discussions about German reunification, US Secretary of State James Baker and his West German counterpart, Hans-Dietrich Genscher, floated such an idea with each other and with Soviet leaders in 1990, but diplomatic negotiations quickly moved on and the idea was dropped.

NATO’s founding treaty – signed in 1949 by the 12 original members and by every country that has joined since – includes a clear provision that opens NATO’s door to “any other European state in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic area.” This has never changed. No treaty signed by NATO Allies and Russia ever included provisions that NATO cannot take on new members. Decisions on NATO membership are taken by consensus among all Allies. Describing NATO’s open door policy as “expansion” is already part of the myth. NATO did not seek out new members or aim to “expand eastward.” NATO respects every nation’s right to choose its own path. NATO membership is a decision first for those countries that wish to join. It is then for NATO Allies to consider the application.

NATO is not at war with Russia and is not party to the war Russia is waging on Ukraine. NATO supports Ukraine in its right to self-defence, as enshrined in the UN Charter. NATO do not seek confrontation with Russia. In response to Russia's aggressive actions, NATO continue to strengthen their deterrence and defence to make sure there is no room for misunderstanding that NATO is ready to protect and defend every Ally. NATO is a defensive Alliance. NATO core task is to keep our nations safe.

PS The book 1984 is written after the spanich civil war 1936-1939 where Orwell fought in with the POUM the whole book is about the soviet Stalin system and the coming of fascist Europe powers. You clearly did not really read it and belief the 2+2=5. In 1931, the artist Yakov Guminer supported Stalin's shortened production schedule for the economy of the Soviet Union with a propaganda poster that announced the "Arithmetic of an Alternative Plan: 2 + 2 plus the Enthusiasm of the Workers = 5" after Stalin's announcement, in 1930, that the first five-year plan (1928–1933) instead would be completed in 1932, in four years' time. In addressing Nazi anti-intellectualism, Orwell's reference might have been Hermann Göring's hyperbolic praise of Adolf Hitler: "If the Führer wants it, two and two makes five!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Orwell
In the end, the Party (Nazi/Soviet) would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality, was tacitly denied by their philosophy. The heresy of heresies was common sense. And what was terrifying was not that they would kill you for thinking otherwise, but that they might be right. For, after all, how do we know that two and two make four? Or that the force of gravity works? Or that the past is unchangeable? If both the past and the external world exist only in the mind, and if the mind itself is controllable—what then
Note: Orwell speaks were you suffer from when you belief 1984 as it is you are ready for 2+2=5.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
A victorious Destroyer is like a ton against an ounce.

Last edited by Dargo; 12-07-24 at 07:40 PM.
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