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Sinkmore · 05-23-14, 01:06 AM

I doubt they'd recognize it. Not because we've strayed from their noble example, but just because the whole world has changed so much.

Actually I think a lot of them would (like me) be glad that a black man could be President. Not all of them, of course. One of the biggest obstacles to forming a union was how to compromise the morals of the new nation to accommodate a minority of slave owners. As a matter of fact, it almost didn't happen. One civil war later, we're still working on that, it seems...

I think MOST of them would be horrified to see the US as the dominant imperial superpower. They weren't big on Empire, the founders.

About half of the founders were ultra-radicals. That is to say, Liberals! In the original sense of the word. They were the ones with all the fancy ideals that we pay lip service to today. They were anti-empire, anti-crown, anti-corporate, anti-church... Those are the original American values. The other half were tax dodgers, smugglers, etc.. They didn't contribute so much to the philosophy of the thing.

They'd surely have been more shocked to see a woman President. Or a woman voter for that matter. Plenty of black men were free, even in the South, and many were respected professionals, etc.. The first rebel casualty was, after all, Crispus Attucks. IDK if he counts as a founder, but I bet he'd be shocked that it took 240 years (and counting...) for America to be ready to treat black people like people. (And just forget women. Plenty of founders fought to make blacks citizens; others fought to end slavery with the idea of deporting the ex-slaves; but none as far as I know ever mentioned women's rights.

They might have been surprised that you, white middle class guy, were allowed to vote. You used to have to own land; by which I do not mean the teensy suburban parcel that your house is on! Some of them would puke in their powdered wigs if they saw that. Most, maybe. They weren't very (modern sense of) democratic, mostly.

I think they'd all be ashamed of the anti-Americanism coming from the lunatic fringes - right and left - but I don't think they'd have been surprised as such things are older than dirt (and equally valuable.) Same with the toxic (and distracting) party politics.

Speaking of tea parties; did you know that the Boston Tea Party was a violent, lawless response to the British LOWERING taxes on tea? I just love that bit of irony. The founders were not anti-tax. At all.

Mostly, I think they'd be so amazed, and perhaps appalled, by the 21st century generally (cell phones, reality TV, globalism, mass consumerism) that they'd hardly notice America at all. Everything has changed! The nature of nations, of rulers, of wars... Families, marriage, child rearing, professions, agriculture, travel... Everything. what if you were unfrozen in the year 2250... Too much future shock to imagine.

05-23-14, 01:06 AM	#7
Sinkmore Shore leave Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Pacific Coast, North America Posts: 70 Downloads: 129 Uploads: 0	I doubt they'd recognize it. Not because we've strayed from their noble example, but just because the whole world has changed so much. Actually I think a lot of them would (like me) be glad that a black man could be President. Not all of them, of course. One of the biggest obstacles to forming a union was how to compromise the morals of the new nation to accommodate a minority of slave owners. As a matter of fact, it almost didn't happen. One civil war later, we're still working on that, it seems... I think MOST of them would be horrified to see the US as the dominant imperial superpower. They weren't big on Empire, the founders. About half of the founders were ultra-radicals. That is to say, Liberals! In the original sense of the word. They were the ones with all the fancy ideals that we pay lip service to today. They were anti-empire, anti-crown, anti-corporate, anti-church... Those are the original American values. The other half were tax dodgers, smugglers, etc.. They didn't contribute so much to the philosophy of the thing. They'd surely have been more shocked to see a woman President. Or a woman voter for that matter. Plenty of black men were free, even in the South, and many were respected professionals, etc.. The first rebel casualty was, after all, Crispus Attucks. IDK if he counts as a founder, but I bet he'd be shocked that it took 240 years (and counting...) for America to be ready to treat black people like people. (And just forget women. Plenty of founders fought to make blacks citizens; others fought to end slavery with the idea of deporting the ex-slaves; but none as far as I know ever mentioned women's rights. They might have been surprised that you, white middle class guy, were allowed to vote. You used to have to own land; by which I do not mean the teensy suburban parcel that your house is on! Some of them would puke in their powdered wigs if they saw that. Most, maybe. They weren't very (modern sense of) democratic, mostly. I think they'd all be ashamed of the anti-Americanism coming from the lunatic fringes - right and left - but I don't think they'd have been surprised as such things are older than dirt (and equally valuable.) Same with the toxic (and distracting) party politics. Speaking of tea parties; did you know that the Boston Tea Party was a violent, lawless response to the British LOWERING taxes on tea? I just love that bit of irony. The founders were not anti-tax. At all. Mostly, I think they'd be so amazed, and perhaps appalled, by the 21st century generally (cell phones, reality TV, globalism, mass consumerism) that they'd hardly notice America at all. Everything has changed! The nature of nations, of rulers, of wars... Families, marriage, child rearing, professions, agriculture, travel... Everything. what if you were unfrozen in the year 2250... Too much future shock to imagine.