Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Steve
How do you know chaos could not create order? How do you know that nothing only creates nothing? None of us were there to see it. With no real evidence, there is no way to know for certain.
I'm not saying you're wrong, because I don't know either. I'm just saying that whether we can believe something or not doesn't make it so.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Steve
I've heard that analogy may times, usually using a house rather than a car. The problem is we know how the metal is refined. We know how rubber is manufactured. We know how glass is made. We know how a Ferrari is made even if we lack the ability to build one ourselves.
On the other hand, the metal is in the ground. The rubber comes from rubber plants (actually these days it's made with artificial compounds, but the point is the same). Glass is made from sand. We have a pretty good idea of how the metal gets there, how the tree reproduces, how the sand got there; but we don't know anything beyond that. A tree grows. We can assume that it is 'engineered' by a higher intelligence, but we don't know that it necessarily must be that way. The truth is we don't "know" anything about the why, or if there even is a "why".
I see these things and I wonder, but so far I don't see any answers.
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EXACTLY. A Ferrari is not even created they are produced but not created out of nothing because much less man unable to create anything out of nothing so nothing will certainly not create everything that we know from absolutely nothing.
Though I can swear that I do know God exists I do not know for sure whether God created everything but since I've found to today that nothing is even remotely close to God it would be a safe bet that He did create everything which would explain the legitimacy of God being in authority and the source of all genuine authority as what I've come to understand and know, authority that doesn't intimidate, coerce(God never scare anyone maybe some preachers do but never God), nor one which requires influence or consent but that that simply works because it's rightfully God's. But of course I can't say this to everyone and hope they understand much less able to accept it because though I understand what little I know and understand, I do not know everything about God or just a mere little something, just like most people who know God. The one who created everything out of nothing must be logically speaking waaay beyond our understanding even that which is our current best.
There's nothing wrong with using the Ferrari analogy to the whole creation..the truth is what you just wrote actually backed the analogy further so if it took intelligent men to design and produce a something out of something else then it must have taken as well some unimaginably intelligent entity to design and CREATE EVERYTHING out of NOTHING. Because if it took intelligent people just to design and produce something out of something else we know for certain that nothing could not have possibly created anything much less everything.
btw I don't mean to argue or force an opinion which is like you said just a personal opinion
And it's more like a philosophical argument or conviction than proving anything.
But I do believe trees sprout out of the ground because its seeds were planted in it. Whether God made the seed where they were I have no way to know unless told and unless told I must assume it was just by nature.