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-   -   US Needs a leader like Kennedy (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=99446)

Onkel Neal 10-13-06 01:43 PM

US Needs a leader like Kennedy
 
Quote:

It shall be the policy of this nation to regard any nuclear missile launched from Cuba against any nation in the Western Hemisphere as an attack by the Soviet Union on the United States, requiring a full retaliatory response upon the Soviet Union .
-- President John F. Kennedy,
Oct. 22, 1962

Now that's deterrence.
Kennedy was pledging that if any nuke was launched from Cuba, the United States would not even bother with Cuba but would go directly to the source and bring the apocalypse to Russia with a massive nuclear attack.

The remarkable thing about this kind of threat is that in 1962 it was very credible. Indeed, its credibility kept the peace throughout a half-century of the Cold War.
Excellent article by Krauthammer: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/12/AR2006101201668_pf.html


Bush has drawn several red lines with Iran and NK, but has failed to make them stick. Someday, in the near future, when the first terrorist A-bomb destroys Washington, or Copenhagen, or the Hague, or London, or Berlin, or Rome, or Paris... people will look back and see this time as the decisive point where the Western world had the opportunity to act and stop nuclear proliferation, but did not have the will. Bush will be a key figure of blame, but most of Europe and half of America should share the blame for holding him back.

HunterICX 10-13-06 02:09 PM

:-? Question is: Why do we have nukes in the first place?
because we have now the amount to blow up the earth a couple of times, I'll bet that we the human race will be dead because of our own creation of mass destruction.

its a scary thought.

Coda 10-13-06 02:14 PM

US needs a leader like Jesse Ventura. No nonsense, straight forward, common sense with a purpose.

madDdog67 10-13-06 02:28 PM

Can you imagine the mass hysteria around the world if Pres. Bush actually *said* that?

This whole thing is gonna get messy if the UN resolution that gets passed (most likely tomorrow) includes inpections of ships, and we actually try to enforce 'em.

fredbass 10-13-06 02:38 PM

I'm with ya Neal.

fredbass 10-13-06 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madDdog67
This whole thing is gonna get messy if the UN resolution that gets passed (most likely tomorrow) includes inpections of ships, and we actually try to enforce 'em.

I doubt it.

Sea Demon 10-13-06 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredbass
Quote:

Originally Posted by madDdog67
This whole thing is gonna get messy if the UN resolution that gets passed (most likely tomorrow) includes inpections of ships, and we actually try to enforce 'em.

I doubt it.

It depends on how mentally stable Kim Jong-Il is. His government has stated this would be an act of war. Is Kim crazy enough to launch attacks on the South? Does China actually have any control over Kim and his government?

Dowly 10-13-06 02:48 PM

US just needs to remember sometimes that it is PART of the world, not the whole world. :yep:

And on the N.Korea thing, Kim is definitely crazy, but I really doubt he is crazy enough to attack to S.Korea. He knows what would be the result. Without nukes, I´m pretty sure that S.Korea can beat the N.Korean forces. With nukes, the N.Korea cannot achieve anything except the total destruction of itself by other countries with nukes. Then again, if N.Korea decides to attack South with nukes, what will the reaction be on the 'outside' wolrd? Will it result in immediate retaliation with nukes or will there be "basic" war against the N.Korea?

fredbass 10-13-06 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Demon
Quote:

Originally Posted by fredbass
Quote:

Originally Posted by madDdog67
This whole thing is gonna get messy if the UN resolution that gets passed (most likely tomorrow) includes inpections of ships, and we actually try to enforce 'em.

I doubt it.

It depends on how mentally stable Kim Jong-Il is. His government has stated this would be an act of war. Is Kim crazy enough to launch attacks on the South? Does China actually have any control over Kim and his government?

I say inspect the ships and lets call the bluff. They need us to shoot first, so this is a great situation as far as I'm concerned.

Yahoshua 10-13-06 02:58 PM

Agreed.

In fact, there are some who are doubting whether the NK even detonated a bomb because it was so small. It may be a farce to begin with, but should be dealt with as if there were a bomb that had been detonated during that test.

Subnuts 10-13-06 03:02 PM

My gun has killed fewer people than....

Crap. Wrong Kennedy. :damn::rotfl:

madDdog67 10-13-06 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subnuts
My gun has killed fewer people than....

Crap. Wrong Kennedy. :damn::rotfl:

:rotfl:

madDdog67 10-13-06 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredbass
I say inspect the ships and lets call the bluff. They need us to shoot first, so this is a great situation as far as I'm concerned.

I'm actually with ya on this...but Lord knows what it'll do to gas prices hehe.

Onkel Neal 10-13-06 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly
US just needs to remember sometimes that it is PART of the world, not the whole world. :yep:

That's a cool catch phrase. I think, however, the US already remembers that. The rest of the world needs to step up and do their part to stop nuclear proliferation and stop trying to guess how sane Kim Jong IL is and if that has any meaning on what could happen.

SUBMAN1 10-13-06 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly
US just needs to remember sometimes that it is PART of the world, not the whole world. :yep:

That's a cool catch phrase. I think, however, the US already remembers that. The rest of the world needs to step up and do their part to stop nuclear proliferation and stop trying to guess how sane Kim Jong IL is and if that has any meaning on what could happen.

Well put

SUBMAN1 10-13-06 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterICX
:-? Question is: Why do we have nukes in the first place?
because we have now the amount to blow up the earth a couple of times, I'll bet that we the human race will be dead because of our own creation of mass destruction.

its a scary thought.

Simple. Just look at history. Countries unable to defend themselves in the face of overwhelming force get ransaked. Always have. Nukes is simply the progression of weaponry, and it is not the last. Antimatter bombs are on the way that will make the nuke look puny.

-S

Skybird 10-13-06 05:08 PM

Goes all well into the ear. But simply lacks objectivity and reason. We sell military goods worldwide. Nuclear fuel. We differ between civil and milutary use of nuclear tech. We support tyrants if they are of short-termed use for us, we condemn them, if they are no longer our obedient servents. Our economy and our finances are run beyond reason and solidness. Our monetarian debts amongst each other are beyond imagination. We cause conflict and poverty, dependence and misery all over the globe, and call that our mission in the name of freedom, democracy, free trade - OUR freedom, OUR democarcy, OUR free trade. we excuse our falures by our intentions, and ignore that our intentions never matched our candy-sweet words. We have build the international structures and offices of global administration to our will and intention, because in the short term they promised us immense benefits, at the costs of others. We have created our own fate, and now make it sound as if it is the respnesebility of others, as if we have added nothing to the situation, as if all moral autority is ours.

All this in the face of other powers and factions, beliefs and ideologies that also act in the same way like we do. We live on a small and sinking island of the happy, while all around us people were drowning in the stormy sea by the hundreds of millions.

And today, in the present, many of us think that all what we need is more of that tough double-moral, packed into pithy phrases that directly deliver it into the centre of our emotion's control. You know what? This will solve nothing, because it does not change ourselves, not our selfishness and hypocracy, and it does not change the very rottenb mark and intention of the many systems and institutional interactions that form our so-called civilization.

Should we stop trying and fighting for the better? No. But please spare us the emotional catch-phrases and pithy slogans. Instead of a Kennedy speach, we need a general attitude of mind that share's a samurai's determination to serve, that focusses less on our rights that we define ourselves, and focusses more on our duties, and that repalces all what is rotten and hypocricy and split-tongued in our society and international administrative systems with what serves the best of all at the cost of no one and can rightfully be taken as a reason to claim that this it is what it is worth to fight for, and defend. But when the next elections approach, and you will see the ape's theatre that politicians put on, and the masses applauding that BS and call it "good" and "great" and "just" and "worthy", then you can see the grace and greatness of western man's reason and the worthiness of what is left of western civilization.

But at least you have a chance to get a blue or red abllon for free, and a pencil, and a card with some lying bastard's handwritten signature on it. Isn't that a good reason to fight for?

If Kennedy would be around today - I tell you what, it wouldn't make a difference. The general global trends would remain unaffected. That simple. Our civilization seems to be automatted to such a degree, that it now is run by it's own suicidal self-dynamic. We don't need a better speech-writer. we need new "ourselves".

Sometimes i think it would be good if out in space there would emerge an alien power that threatens all mankind and all earth with extinction. maybe that would motivate us to create a better world. But a thinking of "mine is longer than yours" will make us fight against each other and killing each other until the end of human race.

Keine Macht den Doofen! "There is no other hope than that mankind very quickly becomes reasonable." - Einstein, I think.

Hylander_1314 10-13-06 05:34 PM

We need men in office like those who founded this nation.

They received no pay for public service.

Yahoshua 10-13-06 06:32 PM

Agreed.

ASWnut101 10-13-06 09:12 PM

damn straigt!

And Krazy Kim's bomb was supposedly an actual failure. It was a plutonium bomb, which should produce at least a Hiroshima type yeild, but it actually had only the power equal to or less than an American "Davy Crockett" (you may ask me what this is if you are not familliar, I will GLADLY answer!:up: )


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