Tragic Hajj stampede
 

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/me...ede/index.html

The acts of stoning were aimed at the devil, or so I understand. But was the devil in fact very much at work ?

Anway: Tragic

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Re: Tragic Hajj stampede
 

What CNN doesn't tell you.

We saw this several nights ago, on the news. I believe it occurred at the site of the 3 pillars, if I recollect correctly.

Re: Tragic Hajj stampede
 

Thank you AL for the link....I would rather see the truth like that then live in ignorance....To see the chanting Death to America,Death to Isreal has to be seen and heard for reality to stay sunk in.

Sheep

:nope: :nope: :nope:

Re: Tragic Hajj stampede
 

The whole process is simply symbolic. It is sad but there have been far worse instances in previous years such as three or four years ago when approx 1000 people died. Logistically it is a very difficult process to manage such a great number of people.

Firstly, I viewed the clip here: http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD106706

To me it looks like a typical Iranian Govt PR stunt with the "death to America" and "death to Israel" ranting. The 'huge swelling crowd' of a few hunded or so Iranian pilgrims seemed half asleep or perhaps they are getting tired of being fed the repetitive Tehran Government line. Near 3 million pilgrims went on Hajj this year and here we have what amounts to less than 0.01% at an Iranian political rally. This is NOT what Hajj is about.

Iceman, Am I seeing the 'truth' in news reports from America of Cindy Sheehan and a hundered or so anti-war protesters outside President Bush's ranch as being an accurate and representitive view of how all or most Americans feel about President Bush and the Iraq war. I really don't think so. Or should I? What say you sir? :)

Konovalov....I think for yrs now it is quite obvious how Americans feel...they pretty much are always split 50/50 on everything. :) It truly is a melting pot over here....we have Muslims and Jews...Buddahists...and Christians....We got Satan Worshippers and Athesists....We got it all...do not misunderstand me...I know exactly where other cultures come from when they call America the "Great Satan" my country has some issues truly yet what is funny to me is how all cultures cling to the illusion of there own importance and self-justifications for what is done by them.All are guilty of sin to me and are as messed up as the next guy. :huh: The planet in the mean time is the victum of our works and we will ultimatly pay the price for our lack of vision... :)...hum heard that on Star Wars once too lol...

http://www.homevideos.com/freezeframes1122/jedi256.jpeg

Re: Tragic Hajj stampede
 

I didnt mention Israel and America explicitly as the (in this respect quite obviously perceived) Satan-on-Earth in my final version, as not to upset some sensitive people in this forum.

Re: Tragic Hajj stampede
 

You're a good dhimmi. :yep:

Konovalov, it's not just the Iranians and I think you should know by now that the audiences are slightly bigger than a few hundred people.

Re: Tragic Hajj stampede
 

I was replying specifically about those who were on Hajj as this topic was about. You are talking about a guy on TV in Saudi Arabia which is a seperate issue relating to the goings on in Saudi of which I strongly oppose (ie. two faced in allies to the West and on other side pandering to the Wahabs).

I don't know how many people in Saudi watch TV and who specifically watched this particular program. Do you know the figures? I suspect not. In any case this has nothing to do with pilrims on Hajj or about 350 pilrims being crushed to death. It's a convenient platform for you though. I have not experienced Hajj myself but from going off family members and speaking to friends and the writings of those who have experienced Hajj they don't sit down and watch TV.

Avon Lady, In response to a thread about the tragic mining accident and the miss-communication/stuff-up you wrote:

Here 350 odd people died, another senseless tragedy. Why not extend the same courtesy, leave it at that as you said in the mining disaster topic and start a new thread on your mentioned area of discussion?

Re: Tragic Hajj stampede
 

:88) No way I'd ever pay Jizyah ! :arrgh!:

I also refuse to pay the jizya and feel myself subdued.

As for the people trampled to death, this stuff happens *every* year. They whip everybody up into this frezy to annhilate the Satan, and then cut them loose in a rage. In years past, they at least removed all the large stones in the area, because people were catching one upside the skull on the other side of the pillar. Now, everyone throws pea sized (or grains of sand) at the thing.



I am reminded of the movie "Full Metal Jacket", and the way Marines are indoctrinated. LET ME SEE YOUR WAR FACE! WHAT MAKES THE GRASS GROW?! And then they cut them loose onto the rifle range to annhilate their target.

Tragic Hajj stampede
 

I think we see here on this forum as well as in the real world that a relatively small group of people use their religion as a platform for political extremism and in this way taints a whole religion.

It's up to us to realise that this group of 'activists' seems to be rather small and not representative of their religion as a whole. It is up to Islam to make sure that the world understands that these people are in no way representing the general opinion of Islam or condoned in their extremism by their religion.

I further think that both we and the Islam often fail in this.

Anyway, the matter of the Iranians uttering their "Israel & the US are Satan"-fascism is off topic. The individual human suffering is the same, whether the victims are miners or muslims.

Whatever way you look at it, it remains - as Sixpack said - a tragedy.

Re: Tragic Hajj stampede
 

Can you define "relative" as a percentage of the over-1-billion Muslims worldwide?

Jihad watch! Now that's an unbiased news source!

A Saudi professor exhorts his people to hate christians? Wow, first page new. Have you ever seen an American TV evangelist? They've said worst. Routinely.

Prove your claim, please.
Prove your claim, please.

I hope Etienne and TAL will forgive me for proving, or at least argue for, Etienne's claim.

From Jihad Watch's webpage:

In this paragraph, Jihad Watch tells its readers quite openly that their articles are based a claim that "the West is facing a concerted effort by Islamic jihadists (...)." All their articles are written from this point of view, and have as purpose to prove this claim. They only describe events that further their claim, and are therefore biased.

That being said, Jihad Watch is far from the only biased news source.

Using a biased webpage as a news source isn't necessarily wrong, and it is important that these events also are described to the public. But when one uses a biased news source, (such as Jihad Watch,) one has to be aware of its bias, and preferably also find other sources that describe the events from another point of view.


And now over to something completely different: the topic.

Yes, it is surely a tragedy, caused by the unpredictable nature of human beings, and especially the unpredictable nature of crowds.

So you are claiming this is false? An untruth?

Note the dictionary definition for 'Bias":

bi·as ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bs)
n.

A preference or an inclination, especially one that inhibits impartial judgment.

An unfair act or policy stemming from prejudice.

Please point out the "impartial judgements" and the "unfairness" of the articles posted.

Just imagine had they been called "NaziWatch.com".
This itself is absolutely untrue. They have numerous times quoted news articles, politicians, authors and religious personalities with contrary positions and have challenged those positions based on referential quotes and facts from extrenal sources, most often from within Islam itself.

I do indeed see bias here but not in JW's posted articles. Look a little closer to home.
Again, most of their posts are based on external articles. When news items turn out to be false, JW immediately notes the fact. It has, however, been a rare event.

Nonesense. According to Quran -unless I'm wrong- Christians also believe in the same God, the only difference being Muslims believe Christ was a prophet, jews he was just one man more, and Christians he was the Mesiah. So the difference between the three cults is essentially believing in one or another prophet, not in God or the basics about God (Almighty, creator of everything, etc.)

Nonesense. Considering Quran, Israel was the first nation to recognize the only God, Jehova-Allah-God-whatever. Their main difference with muslims is not recognizing Christ as a prophet or Muhammad as THE prophet.

It should be noted that using that style of reasoning, Budhists, Sinthoists Indhis and alike are way more an enemy of Allah than Jews or Christians....

Again the same idiotic manipulation of the masses :damn:

Well, in the areas where those religions meet Islam, there also are conflicts with radical muslims.