[WIP] KDF Liner Wilhem Gustloff
 

Hello Kaleun´s,

after i have finished my old KDF-Steam "Der Deutsche" the germans need their brand new KDF-Liner "Wilhelm Gustloff"/"Robert Ley".

So iam working on it !


http://85.25.133.181/Files/mods/MaddisSchiffe2/WG01.jpg
http://85.25.133.181/Files/mods/MaddisSchiffe2/WG02.jpg

This ship is cloned from the normal Liner.
I reworked the Hull a little bit smaler and spend much time on the bridge but some small changes i have to do until i can release this ship.

Here all my Liner´s

http://85.25.133.181/Files/mods/Madd...rvergleich.jpg

Hope you like it !

Greets

Maddy

klasse arbeit
?
lol

Nice work Maddy

What I see? New excellent work from you!:o :yep:

Yay even more negative renown!!!!! :P

[cowboy] YEEEEPEEEE !http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8168/cowboyhv3.gif [/cowboy]

:88) :rotfl:

Seriously, awesome work, Maddy :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: !!

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/5...ooling3zw8.gif

Looks very promising :rock: :up:

looking good :up:

nice :up:

Since this ship is being modelled I want to emphasize the tragedy behind this and several other hospital, prisoner and refugee ships sunk in WW2 and put some things into perspective.

The "Wilhelm Gustloff" sunk by the Sovjet submarine S-13 (approx 9.500 dead)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm...off_%28ship%29

The "General von Steuben" sunk by the Soviet submarine S-13 (approx 3- 4.000 dead)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dampfsc...al_von_Steuben

The "Goya" sunk by the Soviet submarine L-3 (approx 6.000 dead)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goya_%28ship%29


The "Armenia" sunk by German bombers (approx 5.000 dead)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenia_%28ship%29

The "Cap Arcona" sunk by the RAF (approx 8.000 dead)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Cap_Arcona

The "Junyo Maru" sunk by a British submarine (approx 5.620 dead)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juny%C5%8D_Maru

in comparison
The "Titanic" sunk by collision with an iceberg and often named as the worst maritime catastrophe in the 20th century (approx 1.500 dead)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanic


The Soviet submarine S-13 alone is responsible for 12.000 dead soldiers, crewmen and refugees within 12 days time noone's talking about anymore today.


I know we're all playing a game here, but when portraying a ship like this, I'd like to take the chance to remind people that behind this ship there's a history of more than 10.000 people that were on her and only a few of which survived to tell the tale.

Thank you for the info. I guess the Titanic was partly a sensationalistic stunt on the part of the media (not to trivialize the tragedy, but bigger tragedies put it in perspective).

Since this is a GAME however, in the gameworld I'm just one badass Kaleun :ping:

The translation of the text on the Dutch monument is as follows:

"Victims of the Japanese Sea Transports in South-East Asia

In memory of over 22,000 ABDA servicemen, civilians and romushas killed at sea,
of the more than 68,000 shipped by the Japanese as forced labourers in the "Hellships", during the Second World War in South-East Asia, 1941-1945.

Water does not wash away memory"

Interesting links Woof
Thanx for those

http://static3.filefront.com/images/...izxlvnpcjc.jpg
http://static3.filefront.com/images/...gmbnyfpblz.jpg


http://www.wilhelmgustloff.com/gallery_scalemodels.htm
http://www.modellmarine.de/phpwebsite/index.php
http://www.wilhelmgustloff.com/history.htm
:hmm:

Actually, the story of S-13 is well know in Russia. There were several documentaries and a movie "The next to the god' last year. S-13 was the only S-class submarine that suevived during the war in Baltic. It's captain Marinesko is usually belivedto be a victim of Stalin's regime since it wasn't awarded for thinking Wilhelm Gistloff and later removed from military service, staying unfamous, while being the most successful Soviet submariner of WW2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm...off_%28ship%29
Actually, WG should be colored into grey for the wartime.

to D.Kruger
Could you please post a to the source of this drawing? If there are any other I want them to my collection of ww2 ships.
http://static3.filefront.com/images/...gmbnyfpblz.jpg

This drawing here
http://sabaoth.infoserve.pl/danzig-o.../gustloff.html

Good drawings "Wilhelm Gustloff" are necessary for me :damn:

Well I agree on the point that Marinesko was a victim of Stalin's regime but who in Russia wasn't? From Marinesko's point of view he certainly was a war hero and should have been rewarded as such, especially since his fellow captain of L-3 who sank the Goya was awarded that honor.

However I personally still have problems with attacking ships carrying refugees, wounded and POWs, so I feel strongly that each of the attacks mentioned above was completely unnecessary when it comes to achieving your goal of winning the war, since the fast majority of the people carried on those ships weren't part of the war anymore in any case and since the war was almost over to begin with.

I'd like to give the crew of the British sub as well as the pilots attacking the Cap Arcona, the benefit of the doubt since the pilots were surely ordered to attack that ship and the sub crew couldn't know who was on board. Nevertheless Marinesko surely knew the Russian troops were advancing on Gotenhafen and lay in wait for a refugee ship to leave the harbor. And he did the same again twelve days later. Not very heroic in my opinion. If I remember correctly the German sub attacking the Laconia thinking it was a troop transport and finding out it also carried Italian POWs tried to help and saved hundreds of POWs which eventually led to the uboats flying the Red Cross and broadcasting a message of truce, being attacked by U.S. aircraft.

I quated a "Stalin's regims victim" just to highlight that many things could be seen from various point of view. Possible he wasn't awarded because of too slic moral aspects of the event, may be for his personal problems in relations with officers from higher staff, or as he loved girls and drinks more than it was allowed to a Soviet officer. Still, he is the luckiest Soviet submariner. It's for sure, he couldn't know who was on Willhelm Gustloff and his duty was to attack enemy shipment in the area. Becides, the ship was sailing under guard of naval vessels that made it a legal target, and the Germans used it to evacute troops along with refugees.
In any case this event of history could be included into campaign since we have both AI S class submarine and WG. Possible, someone will be lucky to get there in time and made some chages.

Thank you, I belive my WWII reference books are still much uncomplete.

From what I read of Marinesko I believe his lack of discipline in the years before were the main reasons for his not being promoted, but Stalin's regime might also have influenced that.
That the Wilhelm Gustloff also transported troups is basically correct, and she wasn't designated a hospital ship anymore and was escorted. However the number of refugees on board was more than ten times that of the troups.
Just following orders isn't exactly an excuse for everything but it is also true that we cannot say for certain what Merinesko knew and didn't know about the passengers. I also won't give him any personal responsibility, but having known that the first ship he sank had so many refugees abord (and he would've heard them scream and die in the water) and still attacking a second refugee ship lets me conclude that he didn't care much for the loss of life of innocent bystanders. And I'm also fairly sure he would have attacked with no escorts as well.

We both know both the German Army and the Russian Army did some terrible attrocities conquering each others land and we probably both still have living relatives who experienced that firsthand.
Luckily my family fled East Prussia by train and not with the Gustloff. And even more luckily that time is finally over!

Agree, but we neither should make him a monster, nor a war criminal it was just a daily routine of that horrible time.

If it's true, then I have to agree that it's not particularly heroic. However, I don't know if it's posible to wage a "clean" war on that massive scale. That was not the first mistake anyone made in a war, and it certainly wasn't the last. One thing I never understood was the attack on Dresden, but that has nothing to do with submarines.

I wish that this thread doesn't get too gloomy, however. And those ships look great!