Why are the SUPER MODDERS giving up so quickly?
 

I know I may be asking a lot here but I wish the super modders (Ducimus, Beery, etc.) wouldn't give up so quickly. I guess I shouldn't blame them since they actually want to play the game too, but it is kind of sad.

SHIII saw so much more love when it came to modding; a fact that doesn't make much sense to me. In fact, if you read the SHIII forums, a lot of people turn their nose up at us Pacific warriors.

Sure SHIII is wonderful. I played the heck out of it. But the superb graphics of SHIV makes SHIII just look to primitive to go back to.

So what is it that makes the "love" for SHIV fade away? Is it the lack of convoy battles? Is it the weak nature of the Japanese ASW that makes people lose interest? I don't know.

I am sure we will never see a GWX for SHIV but I hope that the "love" for SHIV will increase in the future.
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I don't think the "Supermodders" are giving up so quickly....

Fact is they come from the SH3 scene and have learned a lot while struggling with it, so they are now much more selective and refined in their work. They are not constantly rushing to add all new mods and well-looking items, but instead have gained much wisdom and let new mods and improvements settle down and proof their value before adding them to their work.

As for GWX, they are still busy with the final 1.04 release of their work. Thinking about SH4 for them right now is out of the question, as it should be, but who knows what can happend when they end their SH3 adventure and have had some rest, maybe all or some of them move on to SH4. Have a bit of patience, man :up: SH4 is here for the long run, and you can be sure it will be turned in agame as beautiful as the modded SH3 is now....just note that for SH3 it has been a 2 years road, so Sh4 will have also its time:yep:

Quagmire, the game is still only months old and there has been great work done on it. Modders, including the 2 you directly mention, have done great things with the game. It will only get better, whether it( future mods ) comes from the exisiting crew here or from somebody that doesn't even own a copy of the game yet.

Folks that mod do it for free in every sense of the word, let's be patient and see what develops over the coming months.

If any of them want to take a break, that is their option, they have earned it :yep:


RDP

SH3 modding was a new concept and the modders spent much time to make it
what it is today. Now SH4 comes along and needs the same time spent to make
it the best. Modders now have to do the SAME thing all over again. Once is fun
but a do-over is getting dull....

JIM

Well I know of at least one modder that got sick and tired of the constant brow beating from the community at large.

Another case of biting the hand that feeds you.

I do know that Duminicus, Tater, and others (sorry Im not real active in the dev community) are still working on things and discovering things on a daily basis.

Yeah that is what I am worried about. BURNOUT. It is I am sure a lot of work to create a GWX and as luck would have it, SHIV comes along just as the GWX team has finished their SHIII masterpiece. They really would have to start all over again to make a GWX for SHIV. A constant stream of modding from their perspective.

Hats off to our supermodders. I tried to mod the game myself and all I came up with was a mess of CTDs. I just don't have the gift. I am just trying to encourage those who do to keep the faith because it is greatly appreciated. I wish their was a better way to thank these folks other than congratulatory threads.

"Don't give up the ship!", as the USN would say, supermodders. WE NEED YOU!

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The file system in SHIV.
 

It is more complex,takes time to learn,& is full of leftover files from SHIII that clutter,& confuse.Because they are connected,or unconnected to nodes that were intended features that were rushed, & or,left out. Sorta like; looking for your keys in the trash.:huh: It does seem as though the talent,doesn't want to mess with SHIV,& that is distressing to the potential we all see so clearly. Say a prayer we continue to be blessed with challenge loving talent,to improve game-play.To make it more rewarding.
GWX,is Atlantic defeat of political injustice.OH the cost! The Pacific is winning freedom from terrorist attacks for liberty.We just want the code to work logically.Now where did the code originate:hmm:

How do you know we won't get NEW supermodders? Tater was not around for SH3 (I "knew" him from the Il-2 forums) and is doing great things for the campaign layers, Captain Cox is new, the gusy (sorry forgot his name) who did "living breathing ocean" is new and I am sure I missed many others. Don't dispair. :D

I guess I am just being a bit selfish. My greatest wish would be for the GWX team to stop working on GWX and start working on SHIV. :up:

But I understand that they deserve to enjoy the fruits of their labor.

I have the highest respect for them. In fact, I sometimes respect them more than the original devs of the game. How is it that a guy like Anvart can fix the periscopes in a week or so with no knowledge of the source code of the game, while the devs with all their inside knowledge can't seem to keep such errors out of a patch.

Do the devs actually play the game they develop???

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Answered your own question?

Im debating if i should answer this question in full.

1.) Building a "supermod" requires a team effort, regardless if i like it or not. Its more like a project, and you need specialized people to fill in certain areas. Artist, programmer, QA, tech support, etc. Some of these areas are backfilled by the modders in the modforum who don't mind their works intergrated, but the point here is, im filling alot of roles with what time i have.

2.) You know how much time i spend on this? A coulple in the morning before work, and 3 to 4 hours after work, every day. Not to mention the time i spend answering posts like this while AT work :roll:

3.) Too many requests, problems, PMs, honeydo's etc as a result of increased "popularity". Could you do this? can you post that? I dont always answer all PMs anymore when i can't or wont give a postive response. See pts 1 and 2.

4.) I have other things id like to do with my time. (A sense of "finishing what i started" is what has kept me going, and not wanting to let ppl down.)

Ats about it.

>>.My greatest wish would be for the GWX team to stop working on GWX and start working on SHIV
>>

Keep dreaming. The GWX team did alot of work, but it was over the course of a long time. Their kinda like the Microsft of SH3 modding. IF they see a good idea, the abosrb the author and his work. Even *I* had some of my work abosrbed by GWX, some of it uncredited. (although in hindsight, i suppose im no different with Tmaru)

The point here being that saying, "Oh i wish gwx would.." is pointless, there are other modders who can make stuff work. Besides that, their head honcho is a diehard uboat fanatic with not one ioata of interest in the pacific or US fleet boats.

Thanks for the reply Ducimus. Dont take this thread the wrong way. I am just posting so modders like you get some appreciation and offer some encouragement.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think is the number one thing that needs to be modded right now? Then what is number 2?
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Thanks for the reply Ducimus. Dont take this thread the wrong way. I am just posting so modders like you some appreciation and offer some encouragement.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think is the number one thing that needs to be modded right now? Then what is number 2?

Sorry for the double post. I have no idea how that happened...

Im not mad or upset, i just tend to put things bluntly when i feel im being asked directly.

Anyway, Off the top of my head...

- Damage model and ship zoning sucks ass. WernerSobe i beleive is attacking that.


- better enviormentals like lighting. (being worked on by Leaovampre, CC, and boris i bleieve)

- Submarine physics are skewed. Its almost as if theyre acting in reverse of how they should act. (IE going faster tends to make you dive slower)

- Want bigger waves? need to ajust the wave attunn settings in the sim.cfg. Problem is smaller ships flood and sink, player submarines will have issues while on the surface, and the whole visual sensors for the AI would need to be readjusted.

- "depth charges in the water!" Its in the SO.cfg file, but im not hearing it, are you?

I never modded SH3 or SH4 but after playing SH3 and Enigma a bit, and seeing SH4's beautiful graphics and generally becoming more interested in subs (which takes time!), I was inspired to bring the best of Enigma (voice command) into SH4. First version is out and working well. So maybe more new people like me will come to the scene (I don't have the inclination to mess with physics, graphics, AI, etc. I leave that to more talented people.)

I think the key is that developing a sub addiction takes a bit of time, especially for younger folks. Now that SH4 1.3 is out and getting a generally positive response, more people might be drawn in. One reason I committed to doing this was the presence of all the other mods, so I also hope that they keep coming and improving. When I'm done with my voice command, I'll want to play an awesome game with it, and I'll need their mods for that. When I test things out in my stock configuration, I sink destroyers by just ramming into them, and they generally ignore me a lot longer than they should, the game doesn't seem like much fun when there's these constant breaks from reality and immersion.

On that subject, sh4speech is all about better immersion through voice command. My general rule is, if a task wasn't hands-on for the Captain, it won't be in my game either. And beyond the stadimeter, pointing at a spot on a map, and swiveling the periscopes, the Captain didn't really touch a whole lot, so I still have some work ahead of me... :) If you can bark orders and not feel like an idiot, it really adds a lot to the game. If you think voice recognition is horribly unreliable, try it, you'll be blown away. The accuracy amazes me still.

And none of the great modders for SH2 had much to do with SH3. New folks come along, the game is still shiny and new, and who knows what it's going to look like two years down the line?

Patience is everything.

Good points. Theres quite a few great mods that are made by people who never modded for Sh3. Realistically, i dont think its a good idea to count on the modders from Sh3 to be around long in general. Think about it, you spend Months, or years tooling around with one game, now you have to start over and do it all over again?! Yeah, right.... :roll:

Modding this game is not hard. Once you learn the file structure and what files do what, your in a position to change most annoyances.

You know, i woudlnt burn out so quickly and want to quit if i wasnt doing so much by myself. I'd love to just poke at a single problem, focus on it, kick it around for a couple weeks or months, off and on as time allowed. But since i chose to make a modpack, i don't have that luxury. I have a pressing need to "move on to the next item" sort of thing.

I have often thought about making a formal "team". Asking for volunteers, but i havent for many reasons:

1.) I dont want to alienate anyone.

2.) I like modding discussions in the open. A team often has a tendency to, (and sometimes a need to), discuss in private. I dislike this because it keeps knowledge and know how from the public, and the mod forum no longer an open forum. I dont want to form a cliche and factionalize the community, or set the foundations for a future mod war.

3.) Formal team means Commitment. Just how much commitment left do i have to give? I dont know.

Maybe theres another way? I dunno. An open agreement to work on the same collective project? But then comes an issue of "vision", "goals" and "intent". You have to pursue a singular goal, if you can't the end result will be watered down and dilluted.

When I was plugging alone on my campaign at my own pace, and attacking other things as I felt like it, it was entirely fun. To the extent I feel pressured to get somethign out the door quickly, it becomes "work."

Having all kinds of people use my campaign in TM indeed made it more on the work side because I hated to have a crappy camapign used by many people---and I do consider what I have beta because it doesn't match my vision for it by a long shot yet.

Getting a "good enough" version out there for TM frees me to work at my own pace again, and I'll happily try and modularize it when it's dialed in for TM.

I like that whole concept of modules, frankly. Different people have different interests.

To the extent you can muck around for fun, it's fun. As soon as you are compelled to "support" stuff it becomes work.

As for secrets.. I have a post waiting to be made regarding new camapign stuff, but it's fun to keep it a little on the hush hush side since they are fun things that are more fun for not knowing ahead of time exactly what they are.

tater