Why are the SUPER MODDERS giving up so quickly?

Quagmire · 08-08-07, 12:09 PM

I know I may be asking a lot here but I wish the super modders (Ducimus, Beery, etc.) wouldn't give up so quickly. I guess I shouldn't blame them since they actually want to play the game too, but it is kind of sad.

SHIII saw so much more love when it came to modding; a fact that doesn't make much sense to me. In fact, if you read the SHIII forums, a lot of people turn their nose up at us Pacific warriors.

Sure SHIII is wonderful. I played the heck out of it. But the superb graphics of SHIV makes SHIII just look to primitive to go back to.

So what is it that makes the "love" for SHIV fade away? Is it the lack of convoy battles? Is it the weak nature of the Japanese ASW that makes people lose interest? I don't know.

I am sure we will never see a GWX for SHIV but I hope that the "love" for SHIV will increase in the future.
.

Hitman · 08-08-07, 12:41 PM

I don't think the "Supermodders" are giving up so quickly....

Fact is they come from the SH3 scene and have learned a lot while struggling with it, so they are now much more selective and refined in their work. They are not constantly rushing to add all new mods and well-looking items, but instead have gained much wisdom and let new mods and improvements settle down and proof their value before adding them to their work.

As for GWX, they are still busy with the final 1.04 release of their work. Thinking about SH4 for them right now is out of the question, as it should be, but who knows what can happend when they end their SH3 adventure and have had some rest, maybe all or some of them move on to SH4. Have a bit of patience, man

SH4 is here for the long run, and you can be sure it will be turned in agame as beautiful as the modded SH3 is now....just note that for SH3 it has been a 2 years road, so Sh4 will have also its time

ReallyDedPoet · 08-08-07, 12:41 PM

Quagmire, the game is still only months old and there has been great work done on it. Modders, including the 2 you directly mention, have done great things with the game. It will only get better, whether it( future mods ) comes from the exisiting crew here or from somebody that doesn't even own a copy of the game yet.

Folks that mod do it for free in every sense of the word, let's be patient and see what develops over the coming months.

If any of them want to take a break, that is their option, they have earned it

RDP

FAdmiral · 08-08-07, 12:45 PM

SH3 modding was a new concept and the modders spent much time to make it
what it is today. Now SH4 comes along and needs the same time spent to make
it the best. Modders now have to do the SAME thing all over again. Once is fun
but a do-over is getting dull....

JIM

SteamWake · 08-08-07, 01:13 PM

Well I know of at least one modder that got sick and tired of the constant brow beating from the community at large.

Another case of biting the hand that feeds you.

I do know that Duminicus, Tater, and others (sorry Im not real active in the dev community) are still working on things and discovering things on a daily basis.

Quagmire · 08-08-07, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAdmiral

SH3 modding was a new concept and the modders spent much time to make it
what it is today. Now SH4 comes along and needs the same time spent to make
it the best. Modders now have to do the SAME thing all over again. Once is fun
but a do-over is getting dull....

Yeah that is what I am worried about. BURNOUT. It is I am sure a lot of work to create a GWX and as luck would have it, SHIV comes along just as the GWX team has finished their SHIII masterpiece. They really would have to start all over again to make a GWX for SHIV. A constant stream of modding from their perspective.

Hats off to our supermodders. I tried to mod the game myself and all I came up with was a mess of CTDs. I just don't have the gift. I am just trying to encourage those who do to keep the faith because it is greatly appreciated. I wish their was a better way to thank these folks other than congratulatory threads.

"Don't give up the ship!", as the USN would say, supermodders. WE NEED YOU!

.

donut · 08-08-07, 02:38 PM

It is more complex,takes time to learn,& is full of leftover files from SHIII that clutter,& confuse.Because they are connected,or unconnected to nodes that were intended features that were rushed, & or,left out. Sorta like; looking for your keys in the trash.

It does seem as though the talent,doesn't want to mess with SHIV,& that is distressing to the potential we all see so clearly. Say a prayer we continue to be blessed with challenge loving talent,to improve game-play.To make it more rewarding.
GWX,is Atlantic defeat of political injustice.OH the cost! The Pacific is winning freedom from terrorist attacks for liberty.We just want the code to work logically.Now where did the code originate:hmm:

joea · 08-08-07, 02:40 PM

How do you know we won't get NEW supermodders? Tater was not around for SH3 (I "knew" him from the Il-2 forums) and is doing great things for the campaign layers, Captain Cox is new, the gusy (sorry forgot his name) who did "living breathing ocean" is new and I am sure I missed many others. Don't dispair.

Quagmire · 08-08-07, 02:44 PM

I guess I am just being a bit selfish. My greatest wish would be for the GWX team to stop working on GWX and start working on SHIV.

But I understand that they deserve to enjoy the fruits of their labor.

I have the highest respect for them. In fact, I sometimes respect them more than the original devs of the game. How is it that a guy like Anvart can fix the periscopes in a week or so with no knowledge of the source code of the game, while the devs with all their inside knowledge can't seem to keep such errors out of a patch.

Do the devs actually play the game they develop???

.

Linavitch · 08-08-07, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quagmire

I know I may be asking a lot here but I wish the super modders (Ducimus, Beery, etc.) wouldn't give up so quickly. I guess I shouldn't blame them since they actually want to play the game too, but it is kind of sad.

SHIII saw so much more love when it came to modding; a fact that doesn't make much sense to me. In fact, if you read the SHIII forums, a lot of people turn their nose up at us Pacific warriors.

Sure SHIII is wonderful. I played the heck out of it. But the superb graphics of SHIV makes SHIII just look to primitive to go back to.

So what is it that makes the "love" for SHIV fade away? Is it the lack of convoy battles? Is it the weak nature of the Japanese ASW that makes people lose interest? I don't know.

I am sure we will never see a GWX for SHIV but I hope that the "love" for SHIV will increase in the future.
.

Answered your own question?

Ducimus · 08-08-07, 04:06 PM

Im debating if i should answer this question in full.

1.) Building a "supermod" requires a team effort, regardless if i like it or not. Its more like a project, and you need specialized people to fill in certain areas. Artist, programmer, QA, tech support, etc. Some of these areas are backfilled by the modders in the modforum who don't mind their works intergrated, but the point here is, im filling alot of roles with what time i have.

2.) You know how much time i spend on this? A coulple in the morning before work, and 3 to 4 hours after work, every day. Not to mention the time i spend answering posts like this while AT work

3.) Too many requests, problems, PMs, honeydo's etc as a result of increased "popularity". Could you do this? can you post that? I dont always answer all PMs anymore when i can't or wont give a postive response. See pts 1 and 2.

4.) I have other things id like to do with my time. (A sense of "finishing what i started" is what has kept me going, and not wanting to let ppl down.)

Ats about it.

Ducimus · 08-08-07, 04:12 PM

>>.My greatest wish would be for the GWX team to stop working on GWX and start working on SHIV
>>

Keep dreaming. The GWX team did alot of work, but it was over the course of a long time. Their kinda like the Microsft of SH3 modding. IF they see a good idea, the abosrb the author and his work. Even *I* had some of my work abosrbed by GWX, some of it uncredited. (although in hindsight, i suppose im no different with Tmaru)

The point here being that saying, "Oh i wish gwx would.." is pointless, there are other modders who can make stuff work. Besides that, their head honcho is a diehard uboat fanatic with not one ioata of interest in the pacific or US fleet boats.

Quagmire · 08-08-07, 04:29 PM

Thanks for the reply Ducimus. Dont take this thread the wrong way. I am just posting so modders like you get some appreciation and offer some encouragement.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think is the number one thing that needs to be modded right now? Then what is number 2?
.
.

Quagmire · 08-08-07, 04:33 PM

Thanks for the reply Ducimus. Dont take this thread the wrong way. I am just posting so modders like you some appreciation and offer some encouragement.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think is the number one thing that needs to be modded right now? Then what is number 2?

Sorry for the double post. I have no idea how that happened...

Ducimus · 08-08-07, 04:38 PM

Im not mad or upset, i just tend to put things bluntly when i feel im being asked directly.

Anyway, Off the top of my head...

- Damage model and ship zoning sucks ass. WernerSobe i beleive is attacking that.

- better enviormentals like lighting. (being worked on by Leaovampre, CC, and boris i bleieve)

- Submarine physics are skewed. Its almost as if theyre acting in reverse of how they should act. (IE going faster tends to make you dive slower)

- Want bigger waves? need to ajust the wave attunn settings in the sim.cfg. Problem is smaller ships flood and sink, player submarines will have issues while on the surface, and the whole visual sensors for the AI would need to be readjusted.

- "depth charges in the water!" Its in the SO.cfg file, but im not hearing it, are you?

08-08-07, 12:09 PM	#1
Quagmire Watch Officer Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 335 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	Why are the SUPER MODDERS giving up so quickly? I know I may be asking a lot here but I wish the super modders (Ducimus, Beery, etc.) wouldn't give up so quickly. I guess I shouldn't blame them since they actually want to play the game too, but it is kind of sad. SHIII saw so much more love when it came to modding; a fact that doesn't make much sense to me. In fact, if you read the SHIII forums, a lot of people turn their nose up at us Pacific warriors. Sure SHIII is wonderful. I played the heck out of it. But the superb graphics of SHIV makes SHIII just look to primitive to go back to. So what is it that makes the "love" for SHIV fade away? Is it the lack of convoy battles? Is it the weak nature of the Japanese ASW that makes people lose interest? I don't know. I am sure we will never see a GWX for SHIV but I hope that the "love" for SHIV will increase in the future. . __________________ The day publishers figured out that they could sell flashy first person shooters to teenagers in numbers greater than sand on a beach was the day that quality simulations died. --Col. Tibbets UBI SHIV Forums I guess they should have made SH4 an open boat where we run around inside and shoot each other a 1000 times. They seem to handle those games with numerous patches. --Longam UBI SHIV Forums A sad day has dawned...

08-08-07, 12:41 PM	#2
Hitman Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 6,109 Downloads: 109 Uploads: 2	I don't think the "Supermodders" are giving up so quickly.... Fact is they come from the SH3 scene and have learned a lot while struggling with it, so they are now much more selective and refined in their work. They are not constantly rushing to add all new mods and well-looking items, but instead have gained much wisdom and let new mods and improvements settle down and proof their value before adding them to their work. As for GWX, they are still busy with the final 1.04 release of their work. Thinking about SH4 for them right now is out of the question, as it should be, but who knows what can happend when they end their SH3 adventure and have had some rest, maybe all or some of them move on to SH4. Have a bit of patience, man SH4 is here for the long run, and you can be sure it will be turned in agame as beautiful as the modded SH3 is now....just note that for SH3 it has been a 2 years road, so Sh4 will have also its time __________________ One day I will return to sea ...

08-08-07, 12:41 PM	#3
ReallyDedPoet Canadian Wolf Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Canada. The one and only, East Coast Posts: 10,884 Downloads: 946 Uploads: 5	Quagmire, the game is still only months old and there has been great work done on it. Modders, including the 2 you directly mention, have done great things with the game. It will only get better, whether it( future mods ) comes from the exisiting crew here or from somebody that doesn't even own a copy of the game yet. Folks that mod do it for free in every sense of the word, let's be patient and see what develops over the coming months. If any of them want to take a break, that is their option, they have earned it RDP __________________ Back in the Day

08-08-07, 12:45 PM	#4
FAdmiral Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 1,079 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	SH3 modding was a new concept and the modders spent much time to make it what it is today. Now SH4 comes along and needs the same time spent to make it the best. Modders now have to do the SAME thing all over again. Once is fun but a do-over is getting dull.... JIM __________________ If you\'re not taking losses, you\'re not doing enough. RAdm. Kelly Turner, USN ********************************** www.fairtax.org

08-08-07, 02:38 PM	#7
donut The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: The Shifting, Whispering Sands, NM Posts: 1,463 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	The file system in SHIV. It is more complex,takes time to learn,& is full of leftover files from SHIII that clutter,& confuse.Because they are connected,or unconnected to nodes that were intended features that were rushed, & or,left out. Sorta like; looking for your keys in the trash. It does seem as though the talent,doesn't want to mess with SHIV,& that is distressing to the potential we all see so clearly. Say a prayer we continue to be blessed with challenge loving talent,to improve game-play.To make it more rewarding. GWX,is Atlantic defeat of political injustice.OH the cost! The Pacific is winning freedom from terrorist attacks for liberty.We just want the code to work logically.Now where did the code originate:hmm: Last edited by donut; 08-08-07 at 03:17 PM.

08-08-07, 01:13 PM	#5
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Well I know of at least one modder that got sick and tired of the constant brow beating from the community at large. Another case of biting the hand that feeds you. I do know that Duminicus, Tater, and others (sorry Im not real active in the dev community) are still working on things and discovering things on a daily basis.

08-08-07, 02:40 PM	#8
joea Silent Hunter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: At periscope depth in Lake Geneva Posts: 3,512 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	How do you know we won't get NEW supermodders? Tater was not around for SH3 (I "knew" him from the Il-2 forums) and is doing great things for the campaign layers, Captain Cox is new, the gusy (sorry forgot his name) who did "living breathing ocean" is new and I am sure I missed many others. Don't dispair.

08-08-07, 02:44 PM	#9
Quagmire Watch Officer Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 335 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	I guess I am just being a bit selfish. My greatest wish would be for the GWX team to stop working on GWX and start working on SHIV. But I understand that they deserve to enjoy the fruits of their labor. I have the highest respect for them. In fact, I sometimes respect them more than the original devs of the game. How is it that a guy like Anvart can fix the periscopes in a week or so with no knowledge of the source code of the game, while the devs with all their inside knowledge can't seem to keep such errors out of a patch. Do the devs actually play the game they develop??? . __________________ The day publishers figured out that they could sell flashy first person shooters to teenagers in numbers greater than sand on a beach was the day that quality simulations died. --Col. Tibbets UBI SHIV Forums I guess they should have made SH4 an open boat where we run around inside and shoot each other a 1000 times. They seem to handle those games with numerous patches. --Longam UBI SHIV Forums A sad day has dawned...

08-08-07, 04:06 PM	#11
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Im debating if i should answer this question in full. 1.) Building a "supermod" requires a team effort, regardless if i like it or not. Its more like a project, and you need specialized people to fill in certain areas. Artist, programmer, QA, tech support, etc. Some of these areas are backfilled by the modders in the modforum who don't mind their works intergrated, but the point here is, im filling alot of roles with what time i have. 2.) You know how much time i spend on this? A coulple in the morning before work, and 3 to 4 hours after work, every day. Not to mention the time i spend answering posts like this while AT work 3.) Too many requests, problems, PMs, honeydo's etc as a result of increased "popularity". Could you do this? can you post that? I dont always answer all PMs anymore when i can't or wont give a postive response. See pts 1 and 2. 4.) I have other things id like to do with my time. (A sense of "finishing what i started" is what has kept me going, and not wanting to let ppl down.) Ats about it.

08-08-07, 04:12 PM	#12
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	>>.My greatest wish would be for the GWX team to stop working on GWX and start working on SHIV >> Keep dreaming. The GWX team did alot of work, but it was over the course of a long time. Their kinda like the Microsft of SH3 modding. IF they see a good idea, the abosrb the author and his work. Even I had some of my work abosrbed by GWX, some of it uncredited. (although in hindsight, i suppose im no different with Tmaru) The point here being that saying, "Oh i wish gwx would.." is pointless, there are other modders who can make stuff work. Besides that, their head honcho is a diehard uboat fanatic with not one ioata of interest in the pacific or US fleet boats. Last edited by Ducimus; 08-08-07 at 04:28 PM.

08-08-07, 04:29 PM	#13
Quagmire Watch Officer Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 335 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the reply Ducimus. Dont take this thread the wrong way. I am just posting so modders like you get some appreciation and offer some encouragement. Just out of curiosity, what do you think is the number one thing that needs to be modded right now? Then what is number 2? . . __________________ The day publishers figured out that they could sell flashy first person shooters to teenagers in numbers greater than sand on a beach was the day that quality simulations died. --Col. Tibbets UBI SHIV Forums I guess they should have made SH4 an open boat where we run around inside and shoot each other a 1000 times. They seem to handle those games with numerous patches. --Longam UBI SHIV Forums A sad day has dawned...

08-08-07, 04:33 PM	#14
Quagmire Watch Officer Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 335 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the reply Ducimus. Dont take this thread the wrong way. I am just posting so modders like you some appreciation and offer some encouragement. Just out of curiosity, what do you think is the number one thing that needs to be modded right now? Then what is number 2? Sorry for the double post. I have no idea how that happened... __________________ The day publishers figured out that they could sell flashy first person shooters to teenagers in numbers greater than sand on a beach was the day that quality simulations died. --Col. Tibbets UBI SHIV Forums I guess they should have made SH4 an open boat where we run around inside and shoot each other a 1000 times. They seem to handle those games with numerous patches. --Longam UBI SHIV Forums A sad day has dawned...

08-08-07, 04:38 PM	#15
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Im not mad or upset, i just tend to put things bluntly when i feel im being asked directly. Anyway, Off the top of my head... - Damage model and ship zoning sucks ass. WernerSobe i beleive is attacking that. - better enviormentals like lighting. (being worked on by Leaovampre, CC, and boris i bleieve) - Submarine physics are skewed. Its almost as if theyre acting in reverse of how they should act. (IE going faster tends to make you dive slower) - Want bigger waves? need to ajust the wave attunn settings in the sim.cfg. Problem is smaller ships flood and sink, player submarines will have issues while on the surface, and the whole visual sensors for the AI would need to be readjusted. - "depth charges in the water!" Its in the SO.cfg file, but im not hearing it, are you?