Out of Fuel
 

I guess the damage I took effected my fuel, and now there is no way I can make it back to any base or tender. No other solution is possible at this time. I would like to think that the US Navy wouldn't allow a sub or any ship to just drift or be scuttled by its crew. Also, when leaving port wouldn't it the job of the navigator to plot the course, fuel usage and speed for that mission. Wonder if a moddler could incorporate this "navigator" into a mod.

haha thats right theres no little return to base button with sh4. i bought that game, played it for 2 hrs and never touched it since. yea so theres no other way to get out of that situation?

Well if damage caused fuel leakage, then oh well, thats war. On the other hand, if you insist on going faster than slow most of the time, then you're going to run a greater risk. I personally run about 8kts most of the time when surfaced and 3-4 kts when submerged and I have no problems with fuel.

when people make a game they should consider some options ... like letting us ask for help !!! either from other subs or tenders !

would be a great feature

I did just that too. Mission was to Tokyo Bay. Left Pearl at running submerged during the day and surfaced at 4 knots nights. Still by the time I was hundreds of miles from objective, noticed that fuel consumption was getting to 50%. Decided to return and then intercepted a merchant convoy. Sunk 4 large freighters, and took a beating from several others with their deck guns. After that it was impossible to reach Midway. Still the fact remains that even going at that 4 knots there is no way to reach Tokyo. Gato class sub. Hope someone can address this

CaptainCox is working on better interface options for fuel management...but I doubt he will be producing invincible fuel tanks. Try running submerged on batteries and only using diesels to recharge. I returned to port one time submerged on 10% batteries and no fuel. It was cool because the band was still playing and the crowd was still cheering as I surfaced inside the sub pen! :D

I suddenly remember why I don't run with limited fuel turned on. I would not want to be in that situation. Not that the game notices, it thinks I'm set to 100% realism. No fun in getting penalized for playing the game your way, now is there? ;)

I'm just guessing 'cause I've never done any patrols out of Pearl (yet - been messing around in the Asiatic Fleet so far), but maybe a couple of items for you to consider:

1. Did you top up with fuel at Midway on your way to Japan? This is a must.

2. Slower isn't necessarily better - I believe that maximum fuel economy setting is actually around 9-10 knots, so you may actually have been wasting fuel putting along at only 4 knots on the surface.

3. Not sure whether game models this or not (have seen conflicting posts), but running submerged on batteries as you indicated should cost you fuel, not save it. It should take more fuel to recharge the batteries than you "save" from not using the diesels while submerged (I understand that SH3 was bugged for a while at least and actually made this approach work for some folks, though I never tried/tested it myself, but I'm not sure if they got it right in SH4 or not).

Try topping off at Midway and cruising at 9 or 10 knots surfaced as much as possible (till you get within Japanese air cover anyway) and see if you don't make it next time.

Good luck!

Fuel consumption will increase with heavy seas in my experience with SH4 patch 1.3...

If you run out of fuel in SH 4, v1.3 you can just end mission. Nothing else to do, really. Except maybe dive to absolute max depth and hope the sub implodes. :yep:

[quote=panthercules]I'm just guessing 'cause I've never done any patrols out of Pearl (yet - been messing around in the Asiatic Fleet so far), but maybe a couple of items for you to consider:

1. Did you top up with fuel at Midway on your way to Japan? This is a must.

2. Slower isn't necessarily better - I believe that maximum fuel economy setting is actually around 9-10 knots, so you may actually have been wasting fuel putting along at only 4 knots on the surface.

3. Not sure whether game models this or not (have seen conflicting posts), but running submerged on batteries as you indicated should cost you fuel, not save it. It should take more fuel to recharge the batteries than you "save" from not using the diesels while submerged (I understand that SH3 was bugged for a while at least and actually made this approach work for some folks, though I never tried/tested it myself, but I'm not sure if they got it right in SH4 or not).

Try topping off at Midway and cruising at 9 or 10 knots surfaced as much as possible (till you get within Japanese air cover anyway) and see if you don't make it next time.

Tried different speeds. I estimated that fuel consumption was 2% per day at 4-5 knots. Running continuously on the surface seems to use more fuel. I found running submerged daytimes and only running on the surface for the short time it takes to recharge batteries was by far the most fuel saving way to transverse the Pacific. Its a long haul from Pearl to Japan. Topping off at Midway or Johnson Island is a must.

Endurance of subs
 

The optimal speed for the Gato, Porpoise, Salmon and Balao class is 9knts, for the S Class is 7knts.

Otherwise your endurance is quite halfed...

Furthermore, if you manually edit your savegames you can have a new fuel load in this way:

1) In your document folder enter the following path: SH4\data\cfg\SaveGames
2) search the save game directory of your last save, lets say 00000002 and enter inside...
3) edit the file GameplaySettings.cfg and change:
LimitedFuel=true
in:
LimitedFuel=false
4) save and return in the directory 00000002
5) enter in the directory UPCInitial
6) edit the file GameplaySettings.cfg also here as per point 3 and save
7) now you can load the save from the game and you have unlimited fuel. If you want you can save the game, exit and re-modify the savegames in order to have the difficult settings as they were initially, but the fuel in your tank remains!!!!! ;)

Enjoy,
Mith

Too true. If you do not top off you will not make it back. I have only run a few limited fuel missions (I am not doing so right now because I am teaching myself to manually aim and would rather learn without the stress of fuel and batteries, but each time I was able to make it back to Midway for more fuel. The 1st time I just barely made it though.

I think the truth of it is that you need to run 1/3 submerged and 2/3 surfaced for max fuel efficientcy. I have noticed that the boats recharge the batteries faster when surfaced at 2/3 speed, and I know that you get more miles out of 1/3 for the battery life. The game does have fuel consumption due to recharge modeled (if you mouseover the battery icon on the comm page you will get an explanation about that), but the key is to not waste a charge. I try to run my batteries down some and then surface till they are 100% during the night. During the day I travel with them until it gets dark then surface and charge till 100% before I do anything else with it all. If you keep running even after your batter is charged you do not get the most out of your fuel (IMHO). I know that the load from the charger is removed, but there is some time that could be traveled under the sea (and you have already spent the fuel on it). Hope that helps.

(note: I could be off my rocker about saving fuel this way, but it has worked for me thus far).

Later,
~F~

I'm most of the way through my second long range mission out of Pearl using a Gato in 1943. First mission was to Honshu, second was China sea. After topping up at Midway I've been running constantly using the 1/3 and 2/3 approach suggested above. It seems to work, but just. There is no excess fuel to allow for sprints at flank speed to intercept convoys or following convoys to allow a night attack.

I think that I'll start using the editing approach suggested above, because the lack of fuel forces you to make the trip with blinders on, attacking only convoys that you chance upon or that you can stop and wait for.

It costs fuel to recharge
 

It costs fuel to recharge. And not all the fuel you burn will result in electricity for your battery. Some energy will be lost in the form of heat or friction.

So, stay surfaced for the best mileage.

On a sub, there are 4 diesel engines. In principle they can run all the time. The diesels drive 4 electricity generators. The generators can either drive the propellor shafts or they can recharge batteries. If you run at 2/3rd, two electric engines will be utilised to propel the boat, and the remaining two will be used to charge batteries. So, the slower you sail, the faster your batteries can be recharged. That also means that, in reality - dunno about the game, fuel for 4 diesels would be consumed while only two would be used to propel the boat.

Hence, staying on the surface is more economic.

I hope this helps.

Another thing to consider about "calling for help": If you're off the coast of Japan, there isn't going to be any. Period.

It's like a U-boat calling for help while stranded south of Greenland.

There is a legit point here, I have had engine damage (diesel) that is 100%. I have been holed and lost all my fuel. Not 10nm from Tokyo, but in the Java Sea. In RL they might come and take off the crew (in another sub) then scuttle the boat at the very least.

I have no idea how to do this, but it would be cool to have an outside the game app to help.

You are stuck someplace that you feel is realistic to get home from (honor system, obviously). You save the game there---maybe with a standard part tot he front of the name like "rescue_". Exit.

Run a little app that would open the save, and make you either RTB, or ideally RTB with a forced "transfer to a new boat" dialog.

It would be assumed you were picked up and your boat scuttled.

tater

SH3 Commander does something similar for that game; it lets you die and then change "Dead" to "Surrendered". I don't know if there is a way to make it let you choose between "Captured" and "Rescued", but maybe the upcoming SH4 Skipper will have something like that included.

It would be a good thing.:sunny:

Good point here. I was not sure if they modelled this one though. It makes sense as there is more drag (loss of boyancy) and more friction underwater. I know that SSN and SSBN class subs have less friction underwater due to their teardrop shape and can therefore move faster underwater since they get more friction on the surface, but they do not have to worry about the fuel consumption from the increase in drag while submerged because they are not on a conventional fuel.


@Tater
One thing that you could also consider is that you might not have a forced transfer from one boat to the next. I am sure that they could have towed a sub a short distance and refit it at a port if it was close enough. Just a thought.

~F~

Leave none behind!
 

From a historical perspecitve, I don't think we could afford to leave any equipment behind if at all possible in WW2. If there was ANY chance at recovering a boat out of fuel we would do it! Most positivly rescue the crew. Without a doubt. Hmm, sounds like a half baked idea for a mission from other games... :lol:

I need to learn to mod so i can help, but here is a basic, common sense approch to do this from. There are two main parts missing from the game that would make this happen. 1) the ability, even on some limited basis to be in contact with other units in your operating group or in your general area, like a passing task force or patrol ship for example. (To expand on that more com options with HQ would be nice too...) 2) some sort of rescue / refuel / retrieval option.

Now here is where it gets fun and easy, so to speak.

Step one.The com radio is already in place as we send status and contact info to HQ already. All we need (I assume) is to duplicate the "distress call" like the other stations on the radio such as Captain midnights CBS. In short, a new frequency for "help".

Step two has two parts, three if I read the threads right.

Part one, is you put in the call for help, and keep your stuff together until they show up to get you. Fun in its own right, and stressful to I can imagine.

Part 2, Help could come from another sub, or say a DD or other type, dispached to your location. Cool part is, you don't know who's coming. Just that someone is. If a sub shows, it's a crew rescue only. It's a hot zone and there is no time for anything else. If DD or other, its crew rescue or dump some quick fuel in your boat so you can get underway depending on damage state. Either way has options to develope and can add quite a bit to the game for some drama, and realism.

The third option is a full hook up with a tender of some sorts. I've heard rumors in the forums about this so I wont rule it out. I know from my RL Navy experiance that not if IN the battle group they aren't far behind, is the tenders and supply ships. I really hope these make it in the game at some point.

This might be a tad long winded, sorry if thats the case. Point is that it would seem that the infrastructure is already there for the radio call for help, and there would not be any new ships to develope as they currently exist as well. Just a que from your location and a rendevous time. Once help arrives, it can prompt a screen like entering back into port with refit or end patrol menu comming up. Once again, already there.

I know there are many hours of time and tears involved in these. You guys are rock stars in my eyes to be able to pull these kinds of things off on a regular basis. I just hope I have helpful Ideas.

Thaks for listening. :lol: :up: